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The U.S. Supreme Court has never interpreted our Constitution's requirement that only "a natural born Citizen... shall be eligible to the Office of President," and there is no need for the Court to do so now. A common sense reader of these words should at least realize that "natural born" is not a synonym for "born in the United States." It is very unlikely that the Founding Fathers intended to bar the possibility of the Presidency to a child born to an American mother living or traveling abroad (perhaps in connection with service in our military or our diplomatic service or on some other government related business, or perhaps in connection with private business or mere personal whim). Henry Kissinger and Arnold Schwarzenegger are ineligible because they were born outside the U.S. and to parents who were not U.S. citizens. George Romney, born in Mexico to parents who were U.S. citizens, did not suffer silly or vindictive challenges to his right to run for President in 1968. A clever but specious lawsuit out of Pennsylvania tries to make people believe that President-elect Obama was born in Kenya. Obama haters have found fuel in that lawsuit and the one noted above, but anyone who is a Constitution defender rather than an Obama hater should reconsider the likely meaning of "natural born." Whoever really wants to disqualify Mr. Obama should go and try to prove BOTH that his mother was not a U.S. citizen (Wasn't she born in Kansas?) AND that she gave birth to him outside of the U.S. (Is Hawaii fraudulently faking his birth record?). If you can't prove both, your case is worthless except as hate-mongering.

you wrote:
"14th Amendment: "Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Includes black folks, dotty!"

Posted by: thrh
There is no priveledge to grant any one "special rights" over the justice of the people's rights because of their race or their gender, or their power as an official.
Therefore pulling a race card to avoid the clamor to see if he is really a citizen "natural born" is a cheap idiot's tactic isn't it?
If it were not for the Constitution, there would be no women's vote either. I am not ready to throw it away for anyone...and that would include little green men from mars if you thought we should just surrender to them, just because you would just prefer it that way.
If the women of this Country had to take that back of the bus again in the Dem election, then asking for the document is their right too under the Constitution, isn't it?
If you read what you wrote and see it from the people with pitchforks clammouring to know ...don't they have the right?
It certainly would end a lot of mis trust issues and congeal the Country wouldn't it?
A leader must gain that position, and my contention is that Obama is losing a number of his own voting base with his refusal.

There is a huge doubt now, (mainly because few even trust the Supreme Courts any more).
Their refusal to vet it, is making the thing worse for the guy.
It isn't going to go away. It is going to get much bigger.
Why do that to himself?

"The people "enmasse" are clamouring for the document from Obama."

You and who else? Most of the people are sick of this nonsense. I, though, am highly amused to read the maunderings of a third-rate mind about stuff she doesn't even have a clue about.

Keep us entertained, dotty. That's why we call you "dotty."

Okay, dotty. You contend that Obama was born in Kenya. The Donofrio case, which was dismissed by the SCOTUS yesterday, conceded that he was born in Hawaii. So, as I understand it, does the Connecticut case [don't remember the name] that is coming up for review on December 12. So you will agree they were decided correctly, right?

That leaves us with Berg, which so far as I know has not yet been scheduled.

But you will concede as to Donofrio and the other case, right?

"Hey look even Utube has Grandma saying he was born in Kenya and she saw it, out there"

If you can't believe Utube [sic], then who can you believe??

You speak Swahili, eh?

Got a link to the YouTube [correct spelling] site?

Actually, only one of the two translators present said she answered "yes" to the question as to whether he was born in Kenya.

In an omitted portion of the interview, they ask it again, and she answered "No, he was born in Hawaii."

JohnQuimby,
Wasn't a part of the Berg case evidence the plane records indicating they refused to fly Obama's momma out of Kenya, because she was to far along, and they didn't want to risk delivery in the air?
Apparently, there is a website out there in cyber land that congealed all of the Democrat Assistant Attorney General's evidence in the brief filings.

The people "enmasse" are clamouring for the document from Obama. I get the impression many want to see it to prove others wrong, but the fact remains more and more now want to see it.
Is the rumor true that now Vegas is even running huge numbers on it?

Odd to see his supporters suddenly now with torches and pitchforks, but that reaction always seems to go with the turf of the office.

Presidents of the United States are always the characters her citizens love to pick on, and hold to high standards.
The Standards of course, are always several at the same time.
Thus, I cannot fathom why anyone would want to leave such a tiny leaf unturned and usher so much mistrust and questions so early.
The more he withholds , the more he shakes his own base into gambling on it.
If Bets are on....why not put it to rest and display the required papers?

They cannot run anyone off the ballot for any reason, can they?
To allow anyone in question by the public over "Natural born citizen" to do it, is quite another issue.
Why even bother with passports and birth certificates....we don't need no stinking laws is treasonist thinking isn't it?

Posted by: dottydo | December 9, 2008 12:12 AM

I never said "we don't need no stinking laws."

Pay attention! Individually, we all must obey the "stinking laws."

I said WE THE PEOPLE, collectively, are the sovereign legal and legislative authority in the U.S.

Not even our three branch federal government or Constitution holds a greater authority than WE THE PEOPLE.

Constitutionally ineligible candidates can and have been "run off" the ballot.

However, if a Constitutionally ineligible person were to be elected, he or she would be eligible to serve the office for which they were elected.

Again, as precedent, there have been at least six separate occasions where Constitutionally ineligible candidates were elected to Congress, and neither the Supreme Court nor Congress could stop these elected candidates from serving in Congress.

The reason is WE THE PEOPLE are the sovereignty in the U.S.

14th Amendment: "Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Includes black folks, dotty!

The Berg injunction dated Dec 8, is the issue isn't it?
The conversation with the grandmother who declares he was born in Kenya is only a part of the evidence isn't it?

Hey look even Utube has Grandma saying he was born in Kenya and she saw it, out there, so why shouldn't the photostatic copy we all have to provide, be seen by all of "the people"?

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

That's what the Constitution says, dotty! Where's the issue?

"Donofrio claims Obama was born in Kenya."

Actually kevinschmidt, Donofrio admits Obama was born in Hawaii. His claim is that Obama's father was Kenyan and that therefore Obama has dual citzenship. You see how thin they're slicing it.

Donofrio is party to yet another suit he claims is better than this one since he had more time to prepare it.

Anything to delete 65 million votes and overthrow the government.

"thrh,
Read the Constitution, it isn't very long or complicated.
If people do not like the thing they can call upon their elected representatives for an ammendment to it.

BUT WHY?"

I have read the Constitution, dotty. In its entirety. And passed examinations on it at Harvard Law School. Have you read it?

"The burden of meeting the requirment rests on Obama's shoulders, and not the Court's."

Sounds nice. Any law to back it up, or are you just making it up?

Remember: it wasn't Obama who filed this lawsuit. And the one who filed the suit has the burden of proof. Which wasn't met.

I await your expert legal opinion on this matter.

By the way, I have a BA, MA, PhD and JD with honors.

I will carefully evaluate your response. Please include cites to the US Code.

thrh,
Read the Constitution, it isn't very long or complicated.
If people do not like the thing they can call upon their elected representatives for an ammendment to it.

BUT WHY?

Don't we have a great number of talented people who could qualify, be open, forthcoming and traceable, and be great leaders to chose from?

Breaking the law hardly seems the right thing to do does it?

The facts are these: any idiot with the money to pay the fees can file a lawsuit over anything. When they lose, if they have enough money left to pay the fees for the appeal, they can appeal. All the way to the Supreme Court, if they can pay the toll.

But once a dismissal is appealed, what the appellate court decides is whether the decision was proper. If the decision was proper, the case is moot, and gets no further consideration. That was the decision that came down from the Supreme Court today. There will be no further discussion of the merits, because in deciding the dismissal was proper, the court divested itself of jurisdiction: there is no longer a "case or controversy" to consider.

If the Supreme Court had decided the dismissal was not proper, then they would probably have bumped it back down the line to the Appellate Court to reconsider, and the Appellate Court would have bumped it back down to the trial court to reconsider.

But they decided that the dismissal was proper. End of case. Period.

The burden of meeting the requirment rests on Obama's shoulders, and not the Court's.
If he is not forthcoming it will be the Constitution requirement making the charge. The lawyers case filings will only be the tool leading to indictment, if he can't cough the darn thing up.
Once indicted he has the burden of proof to meet the requirement asked for to avoid charges for treason etc.

Get it?

The further doubt and expansion of the problem is easy to end, but he cannot.

Case closed with he cannot?

Hey, dotty! Where did you go to law school, anyway?

"Can these conspiracy nuts now go out and get a life? Sheesh!

Posted by: sandnsmith | December 8, 2008 10:54 AM"

Why spoil all the fun?

kevinschmidt, silly silly me... I thought the Court was not hearing the case to remove Obama from the ballot because the elections are over.
They cannot run anyone off the ballot for any reason, can they?
To allow anyone in question by the public over "Natural born citizen" to do it, is quite another issue.
Why even bother with passports and birth certificates....we don't need no stinking laws is treasonist thinking isn't it?

"If Obama was born in Kenya then brought back by momma for his Certification, he joins the many other American kids who can run for any office, but still not be able to swear into the office of the President.
"natural born citizen" is the stickler verbage isn't it?"

If he had been born in Kenya, you might have a debatable point. But he was born in Hawaii. There is no evidence that he was born in Kenya. There is no evidence that his mother ever went to Kenya [among the legal documents, passport records would be a nice thing to have.] Hawaii says he was born in Hawaii. He has a Hawaiian birth certificate. What you got? A tinfoil hat?

"No one is forcing him ino any illegal act, if he can't vet and prove the case, he should decline the oath taking."

You're right that no one is forcing him "ino" [into?] any illegal act. No one is forcing him into anything. That's because he won. Got it? His case is, legally, proven. Now put your tinfoil hat back on and get comfy, dotty; you've got eight years of Obama presidency to enjoy!

God these people are funny! Do they really let them vote? They shouldn't go outside without supervision!

hardwroc,
Was that the point of law I saw flying over your head?

No one disputes that ARNOLD in California is a US citizen, but he cannot be the President if not born on the turf.
He may win elections handily, but like Mc Cain he has a problem.

If Obama was born in Kenya then brought back by momma for his Certification, he joins the many other American kids who can run for any office, but still not be able to swear into the office of the President.
"natural born citizen" is the stickler verbage isn't it?

The citizens have the right to know, and the press thinks so to...which is their job under the Constitution.

Yes, it is about the Constitution, and nothing but the Constitution.
This is the year to clean the place up and demand the thing fly right.

Judicial is being just as scrutinized this round.
They swore to uphold the Constitution, and that is after all, their only job for the big bucks.

"No one is forcing him ino any illegal act, if he can't vet and prove the case, he should decline the oath taking."

Hey, dottydoodoo: the rule in the US courts is that the plaintiff has the burden of proof. That's the PLAINTIFF, dummy! That's D'Onofrio, Berg, and whatsisname from
Connecticut.

The reason the courts are booting the cases is because the PLAINTIFF can't meet the burden of proof.

Got it?

JakeD

You said earlier in the day that you would cite the US code circa 1961 that pertains to the Obama case. I would like to know what section you were referring to. I thought that thinman 1 was the only person who was more convincing than you and that frankly you were dodging him. You said that you would get that reference. It is 8:50 your time and there is no reference. I assure you that I will pass it on to thinman 1.

I rather deal with the facts in this case. I do not believe that Obama has to provide the birth certificate but I do think that the State of Hawaii does if asked by the courts.

Next, they will argue that Hawaii was never legally annexed, but should be recognized as the independent Kingdom that many natives claim, and was never officially part of the U.S. Of course, they might first require all illegal immigrants to claim citizenship there before Hawaii secedes from the U.S. in order to take that population with them as well.

FACE it, you will only dispute the legal status of the State of Hawaii next. The legal birth certificate was needed for Obama to assume the previous official public offices that he's held up to now. As I recall, his mother was born in Kansas. That's in America! Thusly, Obama is an American citizen, just ask anyone in California where Mexicans can birth a baby in Calif, and it becomes a citizen automatically.So this "dispute" is a strawman argument. Also, the state has approved his legal status and is only NOT recognized by FOX news and republicans. What next, you're suddenly in support of the constitution after 8 years of bending, breaking and ignoring it every way possible?
Maybe you should replay the Oreilly rant from 2004 after that election was stolen outright by rigging the vote counting, access to the polls and role scrubbing prior to election day.
He said, "try winning an election, but, until then, shut up"
His words, not mine.

JakeD - can you explain to me why you capitalize Hussein every time you write it? Are we to interpret that as you being clever, or is there some hidden message there?

Donofrio claims Obama was born in Kenya.

Ok Donofrio, then show us the proof.

Donofrio? Can you show us the proof?

No? Why not? If Obama was born in Kenya as you claim, then surely you must have some kind of proof to back up your claim?

What is Donofrio trying to hide?

Why won't he show us the proof?

I think it is a conspiracy!

You Librals will do everything to hide the truth about Obama’s birth certificate! We all know that this is a conspiracy between the minions of the evil Dr. Soros working through his proxies , The Knights of Templar, The Illuminati, the Masons and of course the vast left wing conspiracy. Why don’t you tell the truth about how the wicked Elders of Zion forged Obama’s birth certificate with assistance from the One Worlders at the Trilateral Commission? And how Obama’s really the 2nd shooter on the grassy knoll. Yeah, I know you’ll say how could he be in Dallas that day when he was only 3 years old but you conveniently hide the secret of how he transported back in time through an anomaly in the space time continuum that was created by the Hadron Supercollider being run by the Gnomes of Zurich. Obama said nothing in opposition to that project though he knows that a black hole was created by that machine and that is where the original drummer from Spinal Tap really is and that he didn’t die in the ridiculous “bizarre gardening accident” , which is nonsense spouted by that fat Hollywood crypto-Marxist film director, Rob Reiner.

How much longer will this conspiracy continue? When will America wake up? Oh the hannity!

"You Librals will do everything to hide the truth about Obama’s birth certificate! We all know that this is a conspiracy between the minions of the evil Dr. Soros working through his proxies , The Knights of Templar, The Illuminati, the Masons and of course the vast left wing conspiracy. Why don’t you tell the truth about how the wicked Elders of Zion forged Obama’s birth certificate with assistance from the One Worlders at the Trilateral Commission? And how Obama’s really the 2nd shooter on the grassy knoll. Yeah, I know you’ll say how could he be in Dallas that day when he was only 3 years old but you conveniently hide the secret of how he transported back in time through an anomaly in the space time continuum that was created by the Hadron Supercollider being run by the Gnomes of Zurich. Obama said nothing in opposition to that project though he knows that a black hole was created by that machine and that is where the original drummer from Spinal Tap really is and that he didn’t die in the ridiculous “bizarre gardening accident” , which is nonsense spouted by that fat Hollywood crypto-Marxist film director, Rob Reiner.

How much longer will this conspiracy continue? When will America wake up? Oh the hannity!"

Like Moses... he only knows what he is told. Son of the sister of the Pharoh? or son of "slaves". Anyway, a red herring, since the patrician class looted Fort Knox.

JohnQuimby:

Nope. My first post on this thread stated that these plaintiffs do not have legal standing. Alan Keyes, as I pointed out, does have legal standing.

dottydo,

I'll have all of my my balls recalibrated.

The problem isn't that Obama hasn't provided the proof, that problem is that you don't accept the results.

Regards,

JakeD

OK, then you must be satisfied since the proofs are already in evidence.

JohnQuimby,
Your crystal ball needs cleaning. Fallacy of intent would mean a mind reader.
I never voted for Bush in either election.
I felt sorry for him, and I still do today.
He was put in a position of mockery by his own will, and it is a fate Obama seems destined for as well.
I did not vote Mc Cain or Obama, because I read the questions presented by Berg the Democrat for Hillary.
I contend we should stop the trojan horse wars conducted in the primary elections, leaving us with only the worst of the two litters to vote for.

If people want to yell out fair, a four party election with equal press and money is a fair election. The prima don's we have chosen lately, are always trashed by the time they leave office.

They are capable to run for President and understand the job, about the time they are removed. It is the people they represent, and not their own will.

When they finally figure that out, they are less pompous and more humble....don't you agree?

I am not above bias and affiliation just like you.

I voted gender in every ballot. The women we never heard of in the Press, that made the ballot, got my vote.

Illinois has not yet come for Obama on his AKA line, but they will lose credibility and esteem with the Country for not doing it earlier.
It is possible that as people flee their Chicago based affiliations, we will see it's fuller impact. At that time we can better gauge popularity of the new guy.

factcheck.org is the name of the wbesite who couldn't get the issue down fast enough, but fought it for months, what a coincidence. I think not !

cactcheck.org just deleted the entire issue. Not even in the archive but all the other issues are there ! Why

the website that was fighting this case for months just took down the entire issie and its the only issue they ttok down even though they have an archive. They couldn't get it down fast enough. What does that say. They had to because they were caught releasing 3 different birth certificates.
just watch someones actions, it usually tells you the real truth. Obama showed it to us !!!

JohnQuimby,

The idealism of an ugly American is alive and well in the youth who question.
If youth did not question in the Vietnam era, the war would have gone on and on, though our soil was never attacked like the war we are in now. Tricky Dicky wouldn't have fallen down, without those who questioned him.

The crime is not questioning and seeking out the truth in this Country.

Your vision seems to appear to be a 1930's scene in Europe. In this Country it is the right of the people and press to question and get answers.
I am seeing some of your twists in hopes of avoiding process, as the great cartoon character who rode his horse backwards ...
"Dudley Do right" intertwined with "Elmer Fudd" who only wishes to see little past his nose like " Mr. Magoo".
After the Berg case, if Obama passes muster of required documentation, he will have no one in the World questioning his authority. right?

The test should be from American clowns prior to oath taking, and not from any other Country's clowns later.
Clearly, the best American leadership is a responsible one, towards those he is to represent.
The American President is not the ruler...he is the American people's voice, so he is best served to listen to what they say.
( We don't allow Kings here...just ask Bush who lost support as King George, and (the soon to lose her race in California) Queen Pelosi)

I liken elections and Partys to the TV show survivor.
Just when one of the contestants thinks he is powerful, the tribe shifts it's will.
They only get to be where they sit at the end, by the will of the jury.

garygelomino1:

I agree that the plaintiffs in every such action have the burden of proof.

Nice comment garygelormino1.

However, you forgot that the right wing nutters that so infest our country don't believe in burden of proof or any constitutional safeguards for the accused.

To them, anyone accused is guilty until proven innocent.

Which is why they believe in rendition or prisons like Guantanamo.

Sarah Plain Stupid, walks into a bar, with a parrot on her shoulder....

(The Bartender says) ; "Hey ! thats pretty cute, where did you get it"?

(The Parrot says) ; "Alaska" !

hahahahahahahahahahahahahah

LISTEN UP all you repuke neocon nazi nutjobs..........

Heres how it works in the ole U.S. of A....You accuse someone of, say, stealing your cardboard box (place you call home, on the edge of a Walmart parking lot) and you file charges.

The courts, if they decide too hear the case at all, require that you prove the charges agaisnt the accused. Not the accused prove they are innocent.

The burden of proof, rests on the accuser and not the accused. Theres a simple reason for this logic...(follow closely you right wingnuts) Its impossible to prove a negative, no one CAN prove they DIDN'T steal your cardboard box (place you live in, at the edge of a Walmart parking lot)

Now go pout or wail and knash you're tooth....heck, go and wait for that rapture your all always muttering about...or go kick the dog for something the cat done did....as ya/all are so apt to phrase it....but just go.

dottydo,

I find that Liberals and Conservatives don't always speak the same language even when they mean the same things or even hold the same values.

Anyway, I took the time to read your post.
You and I have reached some very different conclusions from the events you mention but I do agree with you about this, the Obama questions will not go away.

Not because it remains to be proven, but because no acceptable proof exists for those opposed to this president.

I suspect you found objection with people who rejected Mr. Bush's election in 2000.
I find this question objectionable now for the same reason.

I have no problem with opposition to our elected leaders, I've found a lot to object to over the past 8 years. But when the actions of some in opposition go beyond reason then it is time to question their motives as well.

But that's just my opinion.

Regards

htruman,
Remember that fairness is a fallacy...a hope rather than facts.
It is much like the fallacy of entitlement.
Popularity doesn't make anyone "entitled" to break laws.
It is hard to squander something you do not have.
If freedom was free we could squander it.
Freedom is a real workout for every generation.
Our generation is one that has to ask tough questions, if we hope to have any credibility in the World.
Why would people look up to us, if we just let power roll over us?

I want Obama in Court, and the case fully reviewed. I would have wanted Mc Cain in Court and the case fully vetted also.

When the case clears his credentials, or if it doesn't, Our generation are the leaders of the Free World in the eyes of the World.
We display with our Constitution, how to be a free Country run by it's people, who can and do question.

Obama should be proud to be questioned by the Supreme Court, as the leader of the "Free World".
It is actually an honor for him, after all, he could be an unknown Coummunity Organizer in the muck of Chicago instead of poised for a simple confrontation by a due process to confirm the President.

JakeD:

How about we hold off on the ad hominem personal attacks and simply deal with the issue at hand? If George WALKER Bush was not born in the United States of America, is he Constitutionally eligible to become President of the United States?

Jake D(umb)
What is your true main issue with Obama? Name one, so we can all establish are we dealing with some intelligent republican here or some crapublican. So far, you are crowned as clown on WaPo blogs and bully of today's blog. There is no point of fighting for republican party right now. You can blog back in in 32 years, cause democrats are saving this country from the destruction for the next 32 years. 8 of those years, guess what, salute your president, BARACK OBAMA.

JohnQuimby,

The due process should run, so we can vet any President hopeful, now or in the future.

Remember the case of Shivo?
After the Courts determination, and rulings by all the big wigs, several "legally brain dead" people woke up and flew right with the aide of new drugs? They were all called miracles, until Physicians had to admit their own short comings.

You seem to want to know my belief.

My view is that this Obama question is not just going to go away.... even if the man takes the oath, and a case later runs, he could be indicted for treason for ignoring the rule within the document.
Where did these certified statements from Kenya come from in the Berg case? He is an Assistant Attorney General and a Democrat after all. The party has a lot to be proud of in demanding American things happen right above their party. It grants much more credibility, than anything I have ever seen.

I doubt that the case of Obama leaving blank the AKA section on his bar application is going to just go away also.

We took out Clinton credibility for less of a lie.

We nailed the guy who got us out of Vietnam.
Running for President is like jumping from a frying pan covered in grease, if you manage to get elected.
They maybe slick enough for Congress and an election, but never slick when President.

People don't follow leaders in America....they question them, and every move they make.
No one is forcing him ino any illegal act, if he can't vet and prove the case, he should decline the oath taking.
Shouldn't he?
Read the oath required.

This moot, nonissue is about to fade away, just like the Republican Dodo Party is about to fade away into extinction.

Dear dottydo. I'm really, really, really, super, SCARED. The scenario you illustrate is very, very plausible and disturbing. Especially from someone who appears to be as level headed as yourself.

So just to confirm (so I'll know what to look out for). Chicago's the most corrupt and freedom hating place in the world, followed by Arizona and Hawaii. Is that the correct order, or was it Hawaii before AZ!??

Once again, your revelation has really shocked me to my bones. How I wish that you and JakeD were here to hold my hand at this terrifying moment.

dottydo:

OK, here goes.

Your entire premise is, "what if he's not qualified."

I am asserting that the FEC already has the proofs and has certified that he IS qualified. So I suspect what you're looking for is a reason to de-legitimize the results of the presidential election.

My question is, why would you do this unless you wanted to overthrow the elected government of the United States?

rbbrittain:

I have already agreed, if he WAS born in Hawaii, there's no issue.

JohnQuimby,
If these citizens question the authority of a person who illegally takes an oath to uphold a document he is undermining ...who is the guilty one?
The pending Berg case, should vet the OBAMA question when the supreme court hears it.
What if he is really born in Kenya and only a certified citizen, then if the Court rules he can still serve, we can disband Congress and let these turkeys just run amok?
The Constitution can not be altered from the bench, they are only flawed interpreters, who often are over turned later in history.

I cannot fathom the National Civil Security Forces armed and funded equal to the military, in a Constitutional America can you?

You realize what a laugh such "legal forces" in separate States might become?
Take for instance such a team organizing in the Homeland of the Homeland defense zar:
A rizona
S tate
S ecurity
E enforcement
S quad

or

I llinois
D efense &
I Information
O fficial
T Tactical
S tate Enforcement
Reading the Constitution is a gopod place to start the discussion of a well regulated Malitia.
It suggests guns are to protect people from a militia gone KOOKY doesn't it?

If there is improper activity on anyone's part to date, it would be the press who should have vetted this fully, and drag it throught the grinder and spit it out before the ballots were even printed.
The Constitution granted the press freedoms to speak along with the people, HOWEVER , they have become sellers of their own opinions, rather than fact finders.
This story finally hitting the press is important, as we have known since the Hawaii 1994 police women's story, and 2004 ruling by a judge that Hawaii's system is completely corrupt top to bottom.(Police woman Bonnie Burke case)
Police women sexually assaulted and harrassed by officers were settled with, and given gag orders by the judge...remember it?
The policemen were all elevated along with all the officals who elevated themselves over jutice for the people?

htruman,

Yes, I am a big fan of Putin's pet tiger, his mean judo throw, and his fishing trips... hows that for a knee jerk response? ;)

You missed the point. We cant go on word of mouth by Hawaiin "officials" and pictures taken of Obama's certificate of live birth (which not a birth certifcate.) If you drew a Venn diagram of the two entities, they would have no logical intersection.

Who in this country has the balls to do the unpopular thing and demand proof? .... factcheck.org is not ann office of the USA.

Perhaps the Federal Election Commission should take a field trip to Honolulu and settle this fiasco?

Down with the MSM .... SI SE PUEDE!

Posted by: rdowns00
-------------------------------------------

Hmmm rdowns00, do elucidate for us all what insight you might have that trumps that of the state of Hawaii, Factcheck.org, and the Supreme Court. You poor right wing crackerjacks are throwing your donations into a black hole. Think of it as a stupidity tax, you know, like the one charged by your beloved Fox News!

Not sure how to interpret the Si Se Puede stuff, but if my gut informs me correctly me my condolences for the recent insight you gleaned on who actually won the Civil War. Sorry buddy, the North won. Too bad it took you this long to figure it out. Now go home and mooch off the Federal tax dollars generated by the blue states and talk a great game about Marshall Law, all the while fantasizing about how well you’ll perform when Nancy Pelosi instigates a military coupe.

I'm all for allowing the legal process to proceed. But you've already demonstrated you will not accept decisions you don't like so I guess it won't matter what the courts say.

dottydo - I agree that authorities can be legally questioned. I'm simply saying (and the courts agree) there is no basis here. So who is being treasonus?

The proofs are in. The results are legal.
There is no THERE there.

To carry it further requires something more than desiring a clarification or strict constitutional construction.
This is a deliberate means to invalidate 65 million American voters and overthrow an elected government.

All right, nutjobs; time to step back in your cabin and wait for the black helicopters that will never come. Fact is, even if Obama did have dual citizenship by virtue of his father being a British subject at the time of his birth, he is STILL a "natural born citizen" of the U.S. by any possible definition of the term--because, yes, he WAS born in Hawaii. (I deal with birth certificates all the time, and that IS a legitimate Hawaii birth certificate.) And even if Indonesian law claimed to revoke his U.S. citizenship when his father became a citizen there, per established precedent U.S. law would almost certainly continue to recognize his citizenship. (U.S. law does NOT prohibit dual citizenship, though it is discouraged.)

John McCain was born in the old Canal Zone, but a bipartisan Senate resolution, based on a paper jointly written by top legal scholars on both the left (Laurence Tribe) and the right (Ted Olson), held he is clearly a "natural born citizen". I think some of the courts that dismissed the goofball challenges against him ruled that way as well.

Finally, Federal law does NOT make you prove your citizenship to run, which is why Roger Calero was able to run despite being a mere green-card holder (born in Nicaragua), never a U.S. citizen (much less a "natural born" one). Even the most extreme interpretation of the rule, i.e., that the 14th Amendment implicitly struck out "natural born" by creating only ONE kind of citizenship (thus letting Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jennifer Granholm, etc. run), wouldn't let Calero take office. (There were a few states where a stand-in had to run for Calero because state law bars ineligible candidates from the ballot.) But then, guys like Calero are in it more for the publicity than any actual chance of winning.

JakeD

If this was 1864 you'd: (1) be a proud donor of the George McClellan for president campaign, and (2) be ranting and raving about what a great president James Buchanan was.

James Buchanan, Herbert Hoover and George W Bush for worst presidents ever!

Yeah ha JakeD, have fun fighting communism from your armchair!

JohnQuimby:

I hadn't heard about that -- I am not sure how filing a lawsuit can ever ualify as "sedition" but maybe you will explain -- sounds like a good idea to me.

JohnQuimby,
The legal authorities should always be questioned using the rules of law within our Constitution.
If they act as treasonist to the Constitution of the land, they are not above the laws.

The people are the ones the constitution was placed to protect, it is a document of the people, for the people, and by the people.
It does not say "some people"

JakeD

Gary Kreep (gotta love the name) Corsi and Keyes are allegedly planning to file suit on every executive order signed by the President.

That would be a deliberate act to disrupt the lawful government.

Sounds like sedition to me. But that's just my unqualified opinion.

If you want to shill for these guys, be my guest.

htruman,

Yes, I am a big fan of Putin's pet tiger, his mean judo throw, and his fishing trips... hows that for a knee jerk response? ;)

You missed the point. We cant go on word of mouth by Hawaiin "officials" and pictures taken of Obama's certificate of live birth (which not a birth certifcate.) If you drew a Venn diagram of the two entities, they would have no logical intersection.

Who in this country has the balls to do the unpopular thing and demand proof? .... factcheck.org is not ann office of the USA.

Perhaps the Federal Election Commission should take a field trip to Honolulu and settle this fiasco?

Down with the MSM .... SI SE PUEDE!

Do whatever you want, htruman.

JakeD -- maybe we should bomb every analytical geometry book on planet earth since you hate facts and reason so much.

LOL! It's now "acts of sedition" to question whether The One is Constitutionally eligible to become President of the United States?!

JakeD, last I checked Alaska is a frontier state that mooches off the federal tax dollars generated by Fed tax surplus states such California, New York and Mass.

Don't believe? Check this out -- http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html.

In essence Gov P is the equivalent of a trust fund brat who is given a big bounty by a higher power and then charged with the "extremely difficult" task of living within it. Funny, the same thing could have been said about your "executive" hero George W Bush before he entered the office. You just keep on falling for the same old bull don't you?

I'll be really curious to see how Gov P deals with declining oil revenues (something she has never had to deal with) and a cut in the Fed budget. I suspect that if her previously botched performances at articulating a grasp of the policy tools at her disposal are any indication the state of AK is going to be in big trouble here soon. But hey, she knows to stick it to the weak (like rape victims) which is what you’re all about isn’t it. Protect the sanctity of the womb. Right wing nutcases will abort once the born. Some values you all have!

It's not about innocent or guilty, it's about promoting an idea that some people will use to commit acts of sedition against the legal authorities of the United States.

In my opinion this is a deliberate act.

If not, perhaps October10S could answer his pending questions?

You're welcome. Care to answer my questions now?

Jake_D, you are absolutely right. I did make a mistake in my post.

It should have read as follows:

It's fun reading all the posts by obama_fraud, Jake_D and all the other rightwing nutjobs. . . . . . . .

They can rant, rave, hold their breath until they're blue in the face, . . . . .

When all is said and done, Barack HUSSEIN Obama will still be the President.

Meanwhile, the rest of the nation has left the rightwing nutjobs behind, alone to wallow in their own bile.

And, obama_fraud, Jake_D and they're ilk will still be sad, tired little men, endlessly playing with other and wondering why no one pays them much attention.

Truly, pitiful, pitiful excuses for human beings . . . and really not all that smart.

Thanks Jake_D, I really did need to correct my previous post.

Continuum (the person I asked the question to):

It is a "yes" or "no" question.

Continuum:

How about we hold off on the ad hominem personal attacks and simply deal with the issue at hand? If Barack HUSSEIN Obama, Jr. was not born in the State of Hawaii, is he Constitutionally eligible to become President of the United States?

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 6:44 PM | Report abuse

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JakeD, the case at hand is that BHO is innocent until proven guilty and your little wing nut group has no evidence to support that he is guilty. Boo hoo hoo, if only this was Putin Russia you guys could label him guilty and put the onus of proving his innocence on him. Boo hoo, look's like you chose the wrong country to be born in dude!

htruman:

At least Gov. Palin had SOME experience in the Executive branch of government.

rdowns00 -- You don't need to show your birth certificate to play little league. Yes, I realize that you meant that comment as a little episode of hyperbole, but the fact remains the given your apparent disdain for the electoral process you must love Putin Russia. Why else are you on here ranting and raving about how wrong it is that BHO, who won by 10 million votes, is gasp going to be allowed to be prez. If you actually do indeed love America and democracy and the constitution and blah, blah, blah you might start by respecting the explicit will of its people. We live in a country where you're innocent until proven guilty. It doesn't matter how much you hate the opposition's view point the fact remains that your team lost fair and square.

See you in 2012, and please keep the streak going by nominating some fringe wing nut (hint like Palin) who has no qualifications!

sandnsmith,
Judges not hearing a case that seeks to prevent one from running for office, is a different beast than standing silent if an unqualified guy, not meeting the criteria gets the opportunity to swear he will uphold the Constitution, while at the same time he cannot meet the legal requirements.

Mc Cain could not legally take the oath of office, either.

If a case is filed saying Obama must prove his eligibility to actually take the oath to uphold the Constitution, the Judges who are sworn to Uphold the Constitution must hear it.

Different case definitions mean different things.
Obama can run, but is Obama legal to serve, if he cannot take the oath?

He needs to provide the photostatic document and quash the certified statements of those who swear they witnessed his birth in Kenya, in court for the good of the Country.

It is my Constitution too, not just yours.
Presidents come and go,and always will.

Continuum:

How about we hold off on the ad hominem personal attacks and simply deal with the issue at hand? If Barack HUSSEIN Obama, Jr. was not born in the State of Hawaii, is he Constitutionally eligible to become President of the United States?

It's great reading all the comments by Obama_fraud.

It's fun knowing that he can rant, rave, make up quotes, threaten, yell, scream, berate, and hold his breath. But, when all is said and done, he will be a sad, tired, little man . . . And, Barack Hussein Obama will still be President.

Obama won. Fair and Square.

Meanwhile, this obama_fraud guy will play with himself until the cows come home. He hold his breath until he is blue in the face and not one thing will change. What a pitiful, pitiful man. Truly sad and really not all that bright.

rdowns:

Luckily, NYT, Tribune Co., et al will be filing for BK ...

Can someone answer me the question of why the MSM (NY Times, Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC) has completely ignored the story until today?

Don't you find it strange that perhaps the biggest story in American history (if it was true) came down to the wire almost completely unheard of by the masses? When I would tell people about this case, and Berg's case, were being brought to the Supreme Court they would look at me like I was making it up.... but, but, but the people have voted!! Si se puede!! Blah, blah, blah!!

You have to show your birth certificate to play little league in this country, but you dont have to show it to the Supreme Court (or anyone for that matter) to be POTUS? WTF?!?!

The fascist media needs to be boycotted completely.... you can already see the smoke with the NY Times taking a second on their building.

800news:

I don't have to prove anything, as I am not the one defending GWB. Like I said, good luck with your canard ...

nodebris:

There has been at least one action already filed by an elector AND Presidential Candidate with legal standing. Google: "Alan Keyes lawsuit" : )

JakeD, you still haven't proven that GWB was born in the USA. And don't try using that phony, state-issued, seal-impressed, document called a "birth certificate" either.

George W Bush was NOT born in the USA. It's now on the internet, so it MUST BE TRUE!

Now go hoist yourself on your own canard.

dottydo:

Not according to Constitutional Scholar-At-Large, kevinschmidt (see posts below).

Leave the poor conspiracy theorists alone! Worrying about Obama's birth certificate is a fairly harmless activity, and it keeps them too busy for the other destructive fantasies they'd no doubt fall into without this one to latch onto.

It's not like this muttering and mumbling is likely to have any affect, other than embarrassing themselves. And if that doesn't bother them, it shouldn't bother us.

To be more than just an amusing sideshow, they'd need one, just one, Republican elector to take the bait and buy their story. Then they'd have standing in court, and could get shot down properly, on substance. But getting that single elector appears to be an insurmountable hurdle. Imagine! They can't find just *one* Republican elector crazy enough to buy this. I mean, think of all the whacked out nonsense Republicans have fallen for lately! There's your best proof how exceptionally lame this case is.

So, no worries. Just lean back and enjoy the entertainment. I imagine this will work itself out something like the PUMA conspiracy theories did. Lots of little squeaky voices getting magnified by a bored press into a big booming nothing before everyone gets bored and moves on to the next manufactured "issue."

Well, ok, tease them at will. But gently, gently.

If Obama is not a citizen born in the USA, then it would be GW Bush who is currently duly sworn to uphold the Constitution, who must arrest any judge refusing to uphold the Constitution for treason and sedition against the Country.
Anyone can run for President...even Raul Castro was on the Republican ballot.
Popularity has little to do with law.
If the elected candidate cannot meet the legal definition in the Constitution, then he cannot be the President.

No, John Mc Cain could not take the oath to uphold the Constitution if he is then breeeching it.
Treason is the charge IF HE TRIED TO DO IT,right?

If Obama's momma had him in Kenya, and got him certified in Hawaii as a Natural citizen, he cannot swear to uphold a Constitution that disqualifies him.

Judges should hear the case, to see the evidence, and satisfy the hungry wolves.
If the evidence provided satisfies the naysayers, then happy day.

Judges should not become complicit in any illegal act, by not allowing the case to vet.

What is the big deal to have a case to test the Constitution?

The only big deal is that Bush is acting outside of his sworn duties to demand Judges uphold the Constitution.
Bottom line is GW will be at fault and in jail with the judges if Obama was born in Kenya.

Obama has broken no law, until he swears to uphold the Constitution and cannot legally take that oath of office.

All Presidents were popular once, but we have short honmeymoons in this Country.
The Constitution must be upheld as the first priority.

800news:

You can continue to post whatever pointless rants you see fit. Per Google search, no one (before your canard today) has ever posted: "I don't believe GWB was born in the USA" either before the 2000 election or up through a month before he leaves office. Good luck with that : )

htruman:

Neither Jesus, nor Governor Palin "hates" rape victims -- you didn't see Snopes.com debunked the claim that she charged victims for rape kits -- why are you so afraid of a strong-willed woman?

JakeD, I don't believe GWB was born in the USA, so you and he must prove it to me. And I don't believe YOU were born in the USA, so I want your vote in the national election disqualified. I don't believe your mama was born in the USA either.

I'm calling Alan Keyes right now to make sure your legitimacy is questioned.

Shall I continue this pointless rant or can you see yourself now?

htruman:

I don't watch Fox News, so I would have no basis to chose either A or B. Are you asking me to speculate?

800news:

There's never been a question about GWB being born in the U.S. Next canard?

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 6:11 PM | Report abuse
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JakeD, I highly doubt that anyone on this post is going to believe that bogus claim:(

LABC:

Are you still around?

JRM2:

You just took some friendly fire from htruman ; )

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

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Correction JakeD, I was merely emphasizing the margin of BHO's victory, but otherwise agreed with everything that JRM2 had to say. Over here in fact driven democracyville we can tolerate input from one another without blowing our little Fox news head gaskets.

Have fun with the hating becuase you know what they say... only Jesus hates rape victims as much as Governor Palin!!!

htruman:

I don't watch Fox News, so I would have no basis to chose either A or B. Are you asking me to speculate?

800news:

There's never been a question about GWB being born in the U.S. Next canard?

P.S... JakeD, that's great that you fought a popular uprise in Vietnam, but hmmnn, the threat of communism is that it does not allow for any plurality or diversity whatsoever in society. Kind of like your sounding board.. Fox news. Big question for you, which do you think Fox news more closely resembles: (a) Abraham Lincoln and George Washington or (b) Joey Stalin and Vlad Putin? That's right, the correct answer is B!!!

on the topic of BHO's mandate, your ilk were the ones who declared "a sweeping mandate" when GWB won by 1.5% back in 2004. Remember? Me thinks that Obama's almost 8%, 10 million vote margin is a little more substantial than what GWB used to rationalize his reign of terror. Or is that suddenly inconveniant.

You lost. Get over it.

OK, after 8 long, horrifying years, I'm still waiting to see George W Bush's birth certificate. If he doesn't produce it by Jan 20, 2009, can we just pretend the his administration didn't exist?

October10S:

So, if Alan Keyes (who has legal standing) appeals to the Supreme Court, four Justices CANNOT decide to grant certiorari? Amazing! Which law school did you graduate from?

JRM2:

You just took some friendly fire from htruman ; )

Those right wing radicals have no idea how bleak their future is. They didn't win the election for the Republicans this time, like they have in the past, so you can bet on the Republican party dumping them and looking for a new angle. What will the wingnuts do then? Hey, I have a great idea

THE ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM: SECESSION
I say why not have a few hard-core radically right-wing southern states secede from the union? Say, 4 or 5 of them. Then all the racist, uneducated, hillbilly rednecks and evangelicals; Limbaugh, Coulter, Ingraham and Fox News can move to those states. We would then have them all out of the US and we can finally start being an upbeat, progressive, unified country. Unfortunately, with all those dimwits for citizens, who would run their new "nation"? Well, there's Rush and Bill O'Reilly and Ann Coulter and...!

obama-fraud and JakeD. A few legal principles that I will try to explain in small words since you are both intellect-challenged.

1) Issue preclusion: That's pronounced ish-you Pree-cloo-ziun. That means that if the Supreme Court rules on an issue, which it does when it dismisses an appeal, that's it. The lower court's ruling stands, and the issue is Pree-cloo-ded from further litigation. So no, there will be no more rulings on this citizenship nonsense.

2) Racist morons (it's a legal term of art, really). Pronounced Ray-sist more-ons. It's a term applicable to people of exceptionally (oops, that's a big word), VERY limited intellect, who are so filled with fear of people who look different than themselves, that they cling to complete tripe (that's another word for bull-sh^%$) to try to convince themselves that they are better than the people who don't look like them. Ray-sist more-ons are often the result of deep and long- standing inbreeding (that means your mother is your cousin, your sister and your wife).

3) President. Pronounced prez-ee-dent. The head of the Executive Branch of government. As of January 20, 2009, the Prez-ee-dent of the United States of America will be Barack Obama. Period.

4) Hee-hee. Ha-ha-ha. The sound made by millions of Americans as they laugh in the face of the ray-sist more-ons whose little hate-filled heads can't seem to accept that the next Prez-ee-dent is a black man, duly elected, in a LANDSLIDE, by the American people.

Again. . . . IN YOUR FACE!!!

htruman:

First, I wasn't asking you. Second, why do you think I haven't done "something" to pursue the American dream? I'm happily retired now and enjoying the fruits of my labor ; )

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 5:45 PM | Report abuse

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Oh, I get it! In that case you must be a Fox news inspired patriot.. i.e. you love to utter stupidity about EVERYTHING and EVERYONE that differs from you and then say that its in the name of the constitution!

Secondly I pulled you into the dialogue because acts of public stupidity need to be called for what they are. You've been on this site since February (at least) ranting and raving about the Rev Wright and Michelle Obama, and Aires, etc., etc. So the claim that you would "not have a problem" with an Obama presidency pending he sent you the original copy of his birth certificate is, well, outlandish and contradictory to your behavior hitherto this issue arose.

On the topic of you're happily living in retirement, I somehow doubt that this is the case. Me thinks that you're sitting all by you lonesome self becuase nobody (former wife, fed up kids, nauseated former co-workers) have had enough of your unempowered bitterness.

Get a constructive hobby dude, and no spreading hate and paranoia doesn't count.

rwmm1:

I am not the same as obama_fraud. I have repeatedly urged him to not level ad hominem personal attacks. Since you were handing it out for free, I was simply interested in your professional opinion on my posts as well. Have a nice life.

htruman:

I fought Communists, so I don't "love Putin". Now that I've answered your questions, explain to me how 52.9% votes is a "sweeping mandate for change" re: Obama but not when it comes to Proposition 8?

Thank you tweldy and htruman. What I don't get is: With a 10 million majority win - why does it seem like there are so many conspiracy posters spending time on this issue? One wonders if: a) there are a few posters with many names posting their little fingers off, or b) there are a lot of people on the fringes of society that are not working like they should be and somehow have access to the internet. Either way their souls are shrunken heads.

"Donofrio also contended that Republican Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) and Socialist Workers candidate Roger Calero also were not natural-born citizens and should have been kept off the ballot."
----
John McCain was born on a military base in Panama and thus fell under the category of being born a naturalized citizen of the United States.

This horse was rode during the primaries and Obama had the intellect and decency to declare it a non-issue.

Posted by: JRM2 | December 8, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

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That changes nothing JRM2, you lost! See at the innaugeration...... for BHO.

Jake - it certainly wouldn't surprise me that you are a bit paranoid - since you are aligning yourself with ObamaFraud. I don't recall posting to you - but if you and ObamaFraud are one and the same, then the answer is a resounding "YES".

htruman:

First, I wasn't asking you. Second, why do you think I haven't done "something" to pursue the American dream? I'm happily retired now and enjoying the fruits of my labor ; )

Let me paraphrase all the right wing arguments surrounding this subject. I saw in/on that says that Barack Obama is not a US citizen because .

What it happening is a concentrated effort by the right wing to de-legitimize Barack Obama. It didn't work for the left on George W. Bush who lost the populate vote and won Florida and thus the electoral college only by virtue of the Supreme Court making a recount essentially impossible. Obama won by seven million votes and a very strong majority in the electoral college. Its over people, go back to whatever you were doing before. There is nothing to see here.

Posted by: tweldy | December 8, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse
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Actually BHO won by 10 million votes -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008 -- which reiforms how antidemocratic the anti-Obama, GWB loving trolls on this blog really are. Just fess up JakeD and all your like, nobody loves Putin style Russia more than your ilk.

"Donofrio also contended that Republican Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) and Socialist Workers candidate Roger Calero also were not natural-born citizens and should have been kept off the ballot."
----
John McCain was born on a military base in Panama and thus fell under the category of being born a naturalized citizen of the United States.

This horse was rode during the primaries and Obama had the intellect and decency to declare it a non-issue.

rwmm1:

Are my posts tiresome, arrogant, narcissistic and immature as well?

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 5:31 PM | Report abuse

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JakeD, maybe if you got off your arse and did something, oh stay with me here......like pursue the American dream instead of going from one misinformed witch hunt to the next you wouldn't be such a bitter, hate filled individual.

Dude!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VlXbkgcTJ0

obama_fraud -- dude go home and watch you idol, fat boy sean hannity. btw you're the one peddling alan keyes little conspiracies, hhmmmm do i really have to point out that that makes you the retard??!!??

rwmm1:

Are my posts tiresome, arrogant, narcissistic and immature as well?

Ug ObamaFraud - you're posts are tiresome, arrogant, narcissistic and immature. Reason enough to conclude you're the type that would have an affinity to join the conspiracy theorist's cults. I realize your narcissism doesn't allow you to be introspective - so let me do this for you: The reason why you are so suseptible to the fringiest of the fringe is because it fills a gap in your ego-centric personality. Get some professional help so you can actually live the rest of your life with some honesty and integrity.

ahhh, explain's why although I sent you a bone... you didn't bite. When you get back to your dock station, youtube Rage Against the Machine [charge yourself], then watch the Charlie Rose that featured the producer, lead guitar and writer, who was Obama's room mate in college. You will then be able to determine directional objectives separate from your swimmy headed ankle nips.

Happy Eid ! (or is it Merry Eid)

LABC:

Ask me any hypothetical question you like -- for instance, I have no problem admitting that if Obama was born in the State of Hawaii, then he is eligible to become President -- I will show you how easy it is to answer.

JRM2:

Please add BOBSTERII to the list.

Let me paraphrase all the right wing arguments surrounding this subject. I saw in/on that says that Barack Obama is not a US citizen because .

What it happening is a concentrated effort by the right wing to de-legitimize Barack Obama. It didn't work for the left on George W. Bush who lost the populate vote and won Florida and thus the electoral college only by virtue of the Supreme Court making a recount essentially impossible. Obama won by seven million votes and a very strong majority in the electoral college. Its over people, go back to whatever you were doing before. There is nothing to see here.

Why would normal thinking person answer a hypothetical question on an issue that has already been answered and the facts have already been established? I can understand why Obama fraud does it - he is a tin foil hat and diagram board away from making a permanent outdoor residence near the White House. You're just a bad loser who thinks he is smarter than he is. If that is what you need to get through the next four to eight years, fine. But please, don't think that your questioning is that clever. His mother is an american citizen + he was born in Hawaii, a state = President-elect Barack Hussein Obama, american citizen, natural born citizen, at least 35 years old, permanent resident of the United States for at least 14 years.

ready = read (darn iPhone spellchecker ; )

P.S. Yes, I can watch YouTube videos, but I haven't today.

JohnQuimby:

I already ready that back when it came down (which is why I posted that Berg doesn't have legal standing ; )

yes, I did say that.... hour's ago. Hey Jake, if I post a youtube vid hyperlink, does it show up highlighted in your text on the iphone? And if so, obviously you can watch it but.... is it, well, what's the squawk qual, and I'm guessing it's battery intense. I'm waiting on the next 'ncarnation, February, March with the new intel chip.

Posted by: rwmm1 | December 8, 2008 4:53 PM
You cannot accept our new POTUS ELECT for other more problematic reasons and you can't admit it. Am I right?

RIGH ON BROTHER, RIGHT ON!!! IT SHOULD EVEN MORE SIMPLIER TO INTELLIGENT REPUBLICANS (NOT TOO MANY OF THEM): WE WIN YOU LOOSE, END OF STORY.

Kili, I really agree with you. I wish I had seen what this ruckus is as clearly as you did!

JakeD

Before you make more unsubstantiated claims you really ought to read this:

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/28/0.pdf

This is Judge Surrick's Ruling on the Berg Case (Berg v. Obama et al) in which he reviews all 8 counts in the complaint and submits his reasons for granting a dismissal.

This is my favorite part under "Failure to State a Claim":
"...a court need not credit a commplaint's 'bald assertions' or 'legal conclusions' when deciding a motion to dismiss."

I'm afraid you've already been bucked off this horse.

Here is the real question: If those of you who are demanding the long form COLB were able to get that and have it verified - how many of you would drop this? Or, would you just jump on one of the other bandwagons (i.e. dual citizenship, Indonesian citizenship, etc.)? If your answer is "jump bandwagons" - you are in denail about what your real beef is: You cannot accept our new POTUS ELECT for other more problematic reasons and you can't admit it. Am I right?

Even if Obama is not a citizen of USA, I say let's keep him, he is waaaay better than what we had and what we could have. If he can be anything else in our government, why not president, what a hell, let him be!!!

Oh nooooww the MSM picks up the story! UNBELIEVABLE that this story was swept under the rug until the MSM got the result it WANTED.

We live in a fascist media state. The MSM wanted this soooo badly, it completely refused to run this story until today.

Total BS!

And you wonder why the largest newspaper in the country has to take a second out on its building.

They should all be fired.

"Friends"?! How many times did I try to get him to stop posting ad hominem personal attacks? At least he can answer a hypothetical question ; )

This isn't a right wing kind of thing. It's a conspiracy kind of thing. The posters here who believe that he is not a natural US citizen are like the people who believe men never landed on the moon or that the US has ceded control of the national parks to the United Nations. Most are people who love to question authority but don't know how to question facts.

Har-dee har: Thanks for proving that you are bad loser, JakeDuh...glad you and Obama fraud are friends now. Maybe you can golf together. Winner gets all the meds...

WITH ALL BLAH BLAH BLAH TALKING, WITH ALL SELECTIVE HEARING AUDIENCE AND WITH ALL SENSELESS NEWS, DEFFINETELY "FOX NEWS" HAS THE HIGHEST RATING. I AGREE WITH ONE OF THE MORRONS HERE. HOW AMAZING!!!!

Of course, those like angriestdogintheworld would like to point out that "none of us know where we were born" and "from an existential view, he is an earthling thus by natural law qualified to lead other earthlings if enough earthlings desire said."

LOL!!!

obama_fraud, you really do need some help. We are finally seeing a return to sanity, I hope, following 8 years of Republican craziness and maybe 16 if you go back to the crazed Republican behavior during Clinton.

The Republicans hate the Federal Govt and so take no responsibility for running it well. Now we see the results. Since we are not going to do away with the Federal Govt, let's see a return to responsible government and away from partisan, family values divisiveness (nicer word than I would have liked to use). You might want to take a good look at yourself and see if you will fit into this new, reasonable world. Or will you continue to be crazy? In this saner world, you will become even less relevant, pathetic and ignored.

mcrochip:

For the final time, I am not disputing his American citizenship -- the short form birth certificate produced by the campaign and examined by FactCheck.org is plenty proof enough for me about that -- except for kevinschmidt, however, anyone else who has ever read the U.S. Constitution knows that Obama has to be a "natural born" citizen to become President. Even former CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR Obama himself would agree with that. Let me know if you don't understand the distiction.

If you run a small company that is profiting in the range of 250K, you're pulling in revenues of 2.5 million at the very low end. If you're running a small company making 2.5 million, you don't have time to post on boards like this. Also, you won't really see a substantial tax increase until you're making more like 600K. But that's irrelevant because you're not making this 250K anyways.

Sanction Donofrio and Berg under FRCP 11 - big enough so we can feel their pain

Jerk Phillip Berg's license to practice law

to JakeD and obama_fraud... your constant requests for someone to prove beyond a confirmed birth certificate, validated by the Hawaii gov't are pointless. You won't accept anything that shows different than what you already beleive, so anyone taking on further efforts would be wasting their time.

Also... given the history of the 'kool-aid' comment, you really should stop using it. It is outrageously offensive to people who know what that statement means. And if you don't know, google 'Jonestown'.

Thanks for the laughs, everyone.

kevin thinks the constitution doesn't matter. We elected Obama !

THERE GOES ALL YOUR CREDIBILITY !!!

Posted by: obama_fraud | December 8, 2008 4:04 PM |

You don't think period so you have no credibility. I never said or implied "the Constitution doesn't matter." So stop lying.

I said, WE THE PEOPLE have sovereign legal and legislative authority over our three branch federal government and over our Constitution.

The Constitution was written to limit the powers of our employees in our representational government, not to limit the sovereign powers of WE THE PEOPLE.

WE THE PEOPLE do indeed hold all the power. That is truly what makes the U.S. the greatest country in the world.

Why is that such a hard concept for so many of you to understand?

Was I the only one paying attention in high school civics class?

I do have to go back to work, The days wrapping up in the field. I do like riling people up, its kindof funny. Obama does have an excellent chance to do the right things, I just think he will spend us into oblivian. Actually, it will help my construction co, so I should just shut up.
Gotta go, see ya

The idiot below was bashing Hannity at Fox, so I thought I would educate him a little bit !!

I am in the middle when ity comes to taxes.
I think Obama went way to far and McCain didn't go far enough. I think the highest rate should be about 37% (for people making over 2.5 million), but I think below that the highest rate should be 35% right where it is now. obama is going to increase my taxes by 8.5% because I am in the 250k range. I can just cut my laborer's and carpenter's rates or just charge my clients, either way, I am not going to eat it. That's why I kind of laugh at Obama's plan. I will pass the cost on one way or another !

LOL! According to kevinschmidt, "WE THE PEOPLE" could elect Britney Spears President even though she's only 27 years old. ROTFLMAO!

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 4:01 PM |

Yes, that is true. But because she is Constitutionally ineligible due to her age, her name could be legally banned from appearing on the ballot, unless WE THE PEOPLE made a concerted effort otherwise.

As previously noted, we have on at least six occasions elected people to Congress who were Constitutionally ineligible because of minimum age requirements. None of them, to my recollection, were young, sexy singing babes.

However, I seriously doubt that we, collectively, would be that stupid to elect Spears as our next president, even when she does become 35. Although, now that I think about it, after seeing so many people vote for the brainless Palin for VP, perhaps I could be mistaken.

"Fox News has the highest ratings for a reason !!!!
Posted by: obama_fraud | December 8, 2008 4:07 PM"
----
The Nazis crushed the Jews, so what is your point?

this is fun...
some more USCODE for ya all....this one on Hawaii....depending on when births (parents') took place.

8 USC Sec. 1405 01/03/2007
-EXPCITE-
TITLE 8 - ALIENS AND NATIONALITY

CHAPTER 12 - IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY

SUBCHAPTER III - NATIONALITY AND NATURALIZATION

Part I - Nationality at Birth and Collective Naturalization

-HEAD-

Sec. 1405. Persons born in Hawaii

-STATUTE-
A person born in Hawaii on or after August 12, 1898, and before
April 30, 1900, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as
of April 30, 1900. A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30,1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth. A person who was a citizen of the Republic of Hawaii on August 12, 1898, is declared
to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900.

-SOURCE-

(June 27, 1952, ch. 477, title III, ch. 1, Sec. 305, 66 Stat. 237.)

-MISC1-

ADMISSION OF HAWAII AS A STATE

Hawaii Statehood provisions as not repealing, amending, ormodifying the provisions of this section, see section 20 of Pub. L.

86-3, Mar. 18, 1959, 73 Stat. 13, set out as a note at the

beginning of chapter 3 of Title 48, Territories and Insular

Possessions.

Fox News has the highest ratings for a reason !!!! I love it when they crush CNN and P-MSNBC. Even during the election, Fox was #1. As much as you Hannity haters can't stand it, those are the facts. We crush CNN. I like saying that ! It sounds good !!

" I also own my own company and may get whacked by Obama tax increase next year !!!

Posted by: obama_fraud | December 8, 2008 3:46 PM"
---------
So I take it you weren't a fan of Reagan because he wants to restore the tax rates that Reagan had put in place.

The tax code was restructured to unfairly benefit the super-rich and it has not trickled down. Many do not see it as a tax increase but a restoration to previous levels.

kevin thinks the constitution doesn't matter. We elected Obama !

THERE GOES ALL YOUR CREDIBILITY !!!

I called the Queens medical center and asked them about Obama and they wouldn't comment and then I said, "isn't this all a bunch of BS" off the record and she said "I can't answer that". You would think she would have siad, ya this is all a bunch of BS. But she didn't. Again adding to the question !!!

vn1170, you are so on it! The comments are too much fun!

LOL! According to kevinschmidt, "WE THE PEOPLE" could elect Britney Spears President even though she's only 27 years old. ROTFLMAO!

You have to read between the lines when you analyze what the state of Hawaii said. They only said they have a record on file. They didn't say any of the following, which would have convinced me he's legit.
1) He was born in a Hawaii hospital
2) They have a long form birth certificate

They were very careful in their wording, kind of like Clinton was when he said " I did not have sexual relations with that woman" or when he said, "that dpends on what the word "is" is". So they add gas for the fire too !!!

PART II
Continued

...the American people would never lose a struggle for democracy on their own country -- IF they understood it as such. So, of course, this direct attack (seeking to re-decide or overrule the election of Obama) is styled as "upholding the Constitution." In effect, our own national hunger for the restoration of justice, the rule of law and the Constitution is being harnessed -- in a twisted way -- so that the Constitution can start being enforced FIRST against Barack Obama. That's why it's important to see these lawsuits for what they are -- and go on offense against those who dislike democracy.

WE SHOULDN'T EVEN GO TO THE "MERITS" ON THESE CASES BECAUSE NOTHING IN THE NATURE OF WHAT THEY SPEAK OF JUSTIFIES A JUDICIAL OR CONGRESSIONAL OVERRIDE (OR RATIFICATION) OF THE PEOPLE'S DECISION.

We don't need their "help."'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7951296

In other words, WE THE PEOPLE, collectively, have decided that Barack Obama, Constitutionally eligible or not, will be our 44th president. Our decision cannot be overridden by Congress, the Supreme Court or even the Constitution.

WE THE PEOPLE are the supreme sovereignty and hold supreme legal and legislative authority over the U.S. Our sovereignty supersedes the combined powers of our three branch federal government and the U.S. Constitution.

Remember, the U.S. Constitution was written and designed to limit our representational federal government's authorities, not WE THE PEOPLE's authorities.

WE THE PEOPLE can indeed elect anyone we want to be president, regardless of what the Constitution says, and there is nothing anyone or any law can do to stop us.

Barack Obama is indeed the President Elect.

END OF STORY!

People please.

Get a life. He is going to be the President. GET OVER IT!!!!

so what if FACTCHECK IS NOT INDEPENDENT. Is Fox independent? Is ABC independent? No, yet people use them as a research beacon and trust the research, for the most part.

IT IS OVER. GROW UP. STOP WHINE... Like your boy Phil Gramm said... WE HAVE BECOME A NATION OF WHINERS". STOP WHINING ALREADY!

I hope fat boy Sean Hannity attacks the SCOTUS for this blatant act of treason! That fat boy's been getting his chin chewed off in the sewers of New York for you right wing nut America!

REPOST IN TWO PARTS

The idea that WE THE PEOPLE are the sovereignty and supreme governing authority in the U.S. has escaped both pro and anti Obama camps.

The notion of Obama not being qualified to be president arose during the primaries and was rejected by the Democrats because they choose him to be the Democratic Nominee. The notion was again rejected by WE THE PEOPLE on election day when he became the undisputed President Elect.

At this point, only WE THE PEOPLE, collectively, can change the outcome of the presidential election. Any other argument concerning his qualifications, including his place of birth, at this point is moot.

This is a highly significant point because I suspect in the very near future, a bogus birth certificate will originate from Kenya or Indonesia. But even if it were found to be real, that would not change the outcome of the presidential election. WE THE PEOPLE have spoken and WE chose Obama to be our 44th President.

'This country is owned by We the People. We created the Constitution to limit and shape the powers of government. We can, in point of fact, knowingly elect a felon to the House or Senate and prior US Supreme Court precedents like Powell v. McCormack uphold the inability of the House or Senate to remove the people's choice for any reason other than the qualifications clauses in the Constitution, which are minimal.

>>>In turn, at least six US Senators and Representatives have served full terms even though elected when they were TOO young under the constitution.

Do We the People, the sovereign power of this country, have the power to resolve conflicting claims on a birth certificate where one side claims Kenyan birth and ratify that or assume the risks of that?

Puh-leeze. Of course We Can. And yeah, we can ignore discriminatory claims about kenyan birth that, even if true, just don't matter.

Can the Courts or Congress, on a basis completely independent of the will of the people, second-guess the election, tell us to "try again", or veto our choices?

No They Can't.

2B Continued

How many people do you know that had a baby at their home. I don't know any ! Its defimately possible, but unlikely and dangerous !!!

correct, 3 forms of a birth certificate can be issued.
hospital
state
federal

as far as what Hawaii does with birth certificates is not made up by me. Do some research on how you could get a birth cert back in the 60's. I didn't write the rules thwy went by, but many people have birth certificates that shouldn't. I had nothing to do with that. Look into it !!!

Dan4 and nodebris:

That's what Alan Keyes lawsuit is all about -- I don't even have legal standing to contest the election -- even if I did, 'm certainly not going to try to duplicate all of that here.

Geezle, embarrased by what you do. You and your Obama-bots are going to be in for a big surprise. Just watch his job approval rating. I guarantee this is as high as it gets and just watch it plunge

obama_fraud: "The state of Hawii officials should be prosecuted and put in jail for giving out illegal birth certificates. If you don't have a record from a hospital you should never be issued a birth certificate and Hawaii officals did this on a regular basis. How did they get away with doing this."

LOL.. All those poor kids who were born at home with the assistance of midwives don't really exist, I suppose.

Not to mention that we should believe YOU rather than officials of the state of Hawaii.. and your claim to fame is?

again, geezle, what do you do for a living. I need a good laugh

thinman1:

The "cite" for that proposition is THE BIBLE.

JRM2:

You're welcome. We both have to deal with fringe elements on our own side ; )

"In 1961, Hawaii allowed American citizens born outside the State to registered their birth."

And give the place of birth as Hawaii?

Seems unlikely. Prove it.

JRM, its not spelling conets. I do have a 130 IQ and a bachelor of science degree in Civil Engineering. I also worked 20 years in the construction field. Not a bad record. I also own my own company and may get whacked by Obama tax increase next year !!!

badges? we don't need no stinking badges......

ElMugroso:

Obama is NOT Jesus Christ.

"JRM2:

You saw kevinschmidt and angriestdogintheworld's posts about Obama gets to be President even if he wasn't born in Hawaii, right?
Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 3:41 PM |"
-------
No I didn't, thanks for letting me know and if that is what they are suggesting then they either don't respect or are unaware of our constitutional laws.

I'm guessing obama_fraud's company makes stylish metallic head ware.

If he had nothing to hide, he would have spent 10 bucks and released the BC, instead he spent $500,000 fighting it. McCain release his in the exact same situation, but not Obama. Even the Obama-bots have to admit, why didn't he just release the info and end all the dozens of lawsuits accross the country !!! Pretty simple, he hiding something, not sure what, but something !!!

"You can't understand that because you are stupid. What ??? We just take everyone's word for it ! Hello, anyone home. You are a retard too !!!

Posted by: obama_fraud | December 8, 2008 3:39 PM |"
----
Your rhetoric, not to mention your grammar and spelling inaccuracies throughout this thread lead me to think that you don't have much going on in that head of yours.

Hark ye, jerks: Jesus was not natural born, either, and he saved the world.

EnemyOfTheState:

In 1961, Hawaii allowed American citizens born outside the State to registered their birth. Ergo, it is not necessarily the case that Obama was born in the State of Hawaii. Several witnesses are on the record to his mother's travel abroad while she was pregnant. Obama's alleged PATERNAL grandmother has stated he was, in fact, born in Africa. The orginial LONG FORM birth certificate -- which would prove this question either way -- has not been released by the State of Hawaii, nor examined by FactCheck.org or anyone other that the Director of Health and Vital Statistics. Next canard?

166, lololololololololololololololololololoolololololololololololololololololol.
140 is brillaint, you are so dumb you don't even know the scale. You could have made one person believe you if you said 130 or 140. Plus, anyone with an IQ over 100 voted for McCain

Posted by: obama_fraud

##############

Note what I mentioned earlier about irrational ranting. You really should ponder that a little.

Read your own posts. They are largely incoherent, and rife with grammar errors. Are you expecting me to believe that these posts were keyed by an adult, much less an adult with above average intelligence?

I believe that our respective intelligences are reflected in our posts to this forum. One's use of language is a superb indicator of one's mental health and intellectual fortitude. I am not ashamed of my posts. If you, likewise, are unashamed, then I suspect that your claim to an IQ of 135 is wildly inaccurate.

JRM2:

You saw kevinschmidt and angriestdogintheworld's posts about Obama gets to be President even if he wasn't born in Hawaii, right?

Conservatives fell all over themselves eight years ago declaring the Supreme Court as the final arbiter in Bush vs. Gore. Well, folks, it appears the Court has also spoken on this subject.

Like I pointed out before: If you can't get Scalia and Thomas to buy into your conspiracy theory (apparently involving the entire state of Hawaii), then you're not likely to get much traction with it.

Cheer up. Maybe you can still catch Obama smoking in the Oval Office and petition for impeachment.

"I am waiting to hear from my friend as to whay you do for a living ? probably nothing !!!

Posted by: obama_fraud | December 8, 2008 3:34 PM"
------
Since when does one's occupational status define their intellectual worth? If that were true Albert Einstein would never had been published.
(kicked out of high school, best job he could find was as a lowly patent clerk)

Obama fraud, yes I go into a liquor store they ask for ID, I provide it, we don't then spend 6 months in court while I prove it is not a forgery. Again passport records of the time, etc. These cases have been tossed from the courts for the technicality that the accusing litigant on whom the burden of proof rests offer no supporting evidence for their claim, such as another birth certificate or again passport records proving his mother was not in the country at the time. No the burden of proof in court is not on the accused dear but on the accuser, always has been, that is called innocent until proven guilty, In our system I don't have to prove my innocence you have to prove my guilt, I merely defend .

Its pretty simple, except for dummies like you. Its not up to us to prove he is NBC.
You can't understand that because you are stupid. What ??? We just take everyone's word for it ! Hello, anyone home. You are a retard too !!!

JakeD: It is not true that someone born outside of Hawaii could obtain a Certificate of Live Birth that showed a "Place of Birth" as Honolulu. That is a canard that is oft-stated by the conspiracy nuts on this issue, but there is not a shred of evidence to support it.

JoeT1:

I am not suggesting that Obama is attempting to conceal an out of state birth -- he may honestly think he was born in Hawaii -- I don't know that there's any grand conspiracy either.

thinman1:

As I said, I am on my iPhone so I will have to provide you the specific citation regarding the mother's age upon my return to home : )

republicrat:

The "difference" is that someone born in Africa, but registered in Hawaii at that time, could have a valid birth record. Whether you think it is silly, that's exactly what could have happened.
___________________________________________
JakeD - Coulda, woulda, shoulda, probably didn't happen that way. It's silly.

Kevinschmidt,
You make is sound as though the Electoral College is some Democratic conspiracy...which, by the way, is what I suspect you believe.

The Electoral College can't be controlled by anything as its members are elected every four years BY THE PEOPLE and then promptly disbands after meeting.

THE PEOPLE, this time around, elected more Obama Electors than McCain electors. It was in the papers. Perhaps you saw a few stories about it.

Posted by: thinman1 | December 8, 2008 3:08 PM |

Please don't put words into my mouth, it just makes you look like a fool. Plus your contention that '...its members are elected every four years BY THE PEOPLE,' is incorrect.

The fact is, each state's legislature determines how its electors are to be chosen.

I never claimed a conspiracy of the electors. However, there are those who might argue the electors cannot elect a Constitutionally ineligible candidate.

This is not true. That could make them Faithless Electors.

'There are laws to punish faithless electors in 24 states. In 1952, the constitutionality of state pledge laws was brought before the Supreme Court in Ray v. Blair, 343 U.S. 214 (1952). The Court ruled in favor of state laws requiring electors to pledge to vote for the winning candidate, as well as removing electors who refuse to pledge.

As stated in the ruling, electors are acting as a functionary of the state, not the federal government. Therefore, states have the right to govern electors.

The constitutionality of state laws punishing electors for actually casting a faithless vote, rather than refusing to pledge, has never been decided by the Supreme Court. While many states may only punish a faithless elector after-the-fact, some such as Michigan specify that his or her vote shall be cancelled.

As electoral slates are typically chosen by the political party or the party's presidential nominee, electors usually have high loyalty to the party and its candidate: a faithless elector runs a greater risk of party censure than criminal charges.

Faithless electors have not changed the outcome of a presidential election in any election to date.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)#Electoral_College_mechanics

Plus, as I said before, WE THE PEOPLE would not stand for it. That is the main reason why it has never happened.

I own the company, I can do what I want

Come on geezle the weasel !I am waiting
what do you do, besides blogging

Hey obama_fraud I thought you were "going back to work"

"Time will tell: The burden of proof lies with the candidiate. When you go into a liquor store, is it up to the clerk to prove I am under 21. Think about it for a second !!!

Posted by: obama_fraud | December 8, 2008 3:30 PM |"
-----
Holy crap, this is an argument? hahahahahhahha and YOU are railing on about I.Q.? hahahahahhahahahaha

I am waiting to hear from my friend as to whay you do for a living ? probably nothing !!!

Here is the answer to your question about the three birth certificates. 1) You've been reading copied/pasted messages in the Internet Age. 2) There WEREN'T three different birth certificates released, yet you refuse to believe any source that disputes what you want to believe is true. 3) Look for sources that document the errors in the Three Birth Certificates Theory. 4) Stop reading World Net Daily 5.) Believe that the information provided by the state of Hawaii is accurate. 6) Realize that if there were any legitimacy to the birth certificate question, then the Republican Party and others would have it solved by now.

JohnQuimby:

Dismissal on procedural grounds -- lack of legal standing -- is different than on the merits. If you don't understand the difference, may I suggest law school?

what is kevin babbling about religion for. I don't even believe in god anyway, so what the hell are you ranting about religion for ?/ Dummasssss

It's time for a little education here: (1) a child born to a US Citizen mother, is not automatically given US Citizenship. I speak from experience. My ex was in the military at the time and my son was born in Korea. I had to go, numerous times I might add, to the US Embassy in Seoul Korea to do paperwork requesting, and insuring, his US Citizenship. (2)The birth certificate that is issued to the birth parents is very different than the one mailed when you request a copy. Oddly enough, the copy the state sends out looks nothing like the original. My copy is very different from the original that was issued to my mother and the copy I requested for my son, is very different than the one issued to me.

So, before all of you are so quick to sling mud and talk about things you know nothing about, try obtaining a copy of your birth certificate. You'll be surprised how different it looks from the one your mother was issued.

"...But congress has not domne a thing in years and they could have. The pelosi congress is a disgrace !!!

Posted by: obama_fraud | December 8, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse"

-------------
And there is a reason for that. The Democrat majority has been in power nearly two years now. The prior congress walked lock-step with the President during which time he issued ZERO vetos, since the Dems took over he has used the veto 6 times and the Republican minority has used the filibuster a RECORD amount of times, more than any congress in U.S. history.

This is what is known as "obstructionism"

I didn't win so I'm knocking over all the chess pieces and ruining it for everyone.

We cannot afford this kind of behavior now, not with all the challenges we have. The Republicans can not let their fear of Obama succeeding completely ruin our economy and the lives of millions of Americans because they are more interested in playing politics.

Obama has showed himself as an intelligent, sober-minded individual who is facing bigger problems than any POTUS in history, I don't care if he has a third arm growing out of his forehead, we've all got to help or we will all go down with the ship.

Give him a chance, he's what we've got.

Time will tell: The burden of proof lies with the candidiate. When you go into a liquor store, is it up to the clerk to prove I am under 21. Think about it for a second !!!

along with J2hess' post:
THE CODE

Sec. 1431. Children born outside the United States and residing

permanently in the United States; conditions under which

citizenship automatically acquired

-STATUTE-

(a) A child born outside of the United States automatically
becomes a citizen of the United States when all of the following
conditions have been fulfilled:

(1) At least one parent of the child is a citizen of the United
States, whether by birth or naturalization.
(2) The child is under the age of eighteen years.
(3) The child is residing in the United States in the legal and physical custody of the citizen parent pursuant to a lawful admission for permanent residence.

(b) Subsection (a) of this section shall apply to a child adopted
by a United States citizen parent if the child satisfies the requirements applicable to adopted children under section

1101(b)(1) of this title.

-SOURCE-

166, lololololololololololololololololololoolololololololololololololololololol.
140 is brillaint, you are so dumb you don't even know the scale. You could have made one person believe you if you said 130 or 140. Plus, anyone with an IQ over 100 voted for McCain

How typical of the Anti-Christ worshiping, false Christian church going, kill in the name of Jesus Bible thumping, Ten Commandments ignoring, religious zealots.
Posted by: kevinschmidt | December 8, 2008
__________________________________________
Sort of like those Islamic extremists they are fond of fearing and hating. Creepy.

JakeD: I have no idea if box 7 on the current Long Form existed when Obama was born, or when the current Long Form was adopted. I suspect you don't either. Either way, it's not the original anything - there usually is no such thing at all. Every state records a birth in its own way, and it's not on a single piece of paper for each child, it's now probably a computer file with lots of backups. A BC is produced when one orders a copy. There is simply no way that the Hawaii officials who have certified he was born there have fraudulently concealed that their records reflect only that his mother registered an out of state birth there. It is simply absurd to suggest that Obama is attempting to conceal an out of state birth and that he has gotten Hawaii to join the conspiracy to conceal the distinction you are pointing to.

obama-fraud you really aren't getting it. What evidence do you have that Obama was not born exactly where his mother said, his birth certificate states, and was never questioned until a few months ago? I mean other than his name is not american enough for you?

JakeD,
I went back and read what you wrote. Here it is. Now why won't you substantiate your point?

thinman1:

Check the laws in effect in 1961 (Obama's mother was not old enough to take advantage of that provision at the time ; )

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 2:42 PM | Report abuse

another lie, not one court in the country has indicated the case has no merit. (its not possible anyway). Every case has been dismissed on a technicality and the person bringing the case didn't have the right to bring the case. So, stop the lies. Not one courty has said that ! Nice try though !!!
This is like not checkingID's at the mexican border when a spanish speaking guy indicates he's American !!!

Man, and I was so looking forward to seeing the appellant and his lawyers seated together in the Supreme Court during oral arguments, radiant amidst the dazzling sparkle of flashbulbs reflecting off their little tinfoil hats.

Geezle, another total moron. You can't be that stupid to blame the st of Hawii for changing the birth certificate posted by Obama. you are so out of the ballpark of life its not funny !!! whats your IQ, 60, 70. and I am serious. go take one and call me when you get to 135.

Posted by: obama_fraud

###############

Epic fail, fraudster! 166 here.

JRM, you are very wrong. If we find a birth cert from another country, then he gets impeached and then all you cool aid drinking sheeps can commit real suicide !!!

obama_fraud:

Again, with the unnecessary ad hominem attacks.

thinman1:

Please read my posts again.

republicrat:

The "difference" is that someone born in Africa, but registered in Hawaii at that time, could have a valid birth record. Whether you think it is silly, that's exactly what could have happened.

Dan4:

I thought it was box 7a, but I admit just skimming the Keyes lawsuit.

The great part about free speech, and an open court is NEO-CON and Religio-facist fruit-loop/wing nuts exposing themselves for what they actually are...

DERANGED, PARANOID, CONSPIRACY THEORIST IDIOTS.

Aren't you glad we're booting them from the government agency positions Bushco appointed them to, as well?

GO 44!!!

Hey JakeD,

Why do you suppose the courts have decided to dismiss Donofrio and Berg?

You say that the case has not been decided on it's merits. Why do you suppose the lower courts have repeatedly decided the case HAS no merit?

Maybe there's just no THERE there.

right, LOL. You probably sweep the floor,
loser. What do you do with your highly educated background, I want to hear this. I need a good laugh

"OK, I will stick to my original point. WHY SHOULDN'T ANY CANDIDATE HAVE TO DEFINATELY PROVE THEY ARE ELIGIBLE TO BE ON THE BALLOT ? End of story.

Posted by: obama_fraud | December 8, 2008 2:58 PM "
--------
For the same reason that you shouldn't have to prove that you didn't just rob a bank at gunpoint. We live in America and we believe individuals are considered innocent until proven guilty, go live in the middle east if you want the opposite.

And, the state of Hawaii has supplied sufficient documents to prove his natural born citizenship.

The real "end of story" was decided by the Supreme court today.

Now if you'll excuse us we've got some very serious issues left us by the current administration to solve, if you don't want to help then please don't get in the way.

no, the Supreme Court is a right wing conspiracy....( big grins ))))))

It elected Bush, 43.

babenemo, thats BS. I have 3 copies of my birth cert and the seal shows up clearly on the front and back when photocopied !1
yur full of it !!

"And what's even worse is that we have a false messiah who believes everything written about him, except the truth."
Posted by: angeljoymom | December 8, 2008 2:46 PM
__________________________________________
Why do you people keep referring to Obama as the messiah - He is just a man as far as I know. This messiah complex seems to be more of your problem than his.

Posted by: republicrat | December 8, 2008 2:55 PM

This all started when Obama included in one of his speeches the now cliché, "We are the ones we have been waiting for."

But the Republican Dodo Party dishonestly morphed it into "I am the one."

There is a video proving the first quote, but none for the second.

How typical of the Anti-Christ worshiping, false Christian church going, kill in the name of Jesus Bible thumping, Ten Commandments ignoring, religious zealots.

geezle, you are just an ignorant, uneducated pinhead with no clue. Try getting a job for a change. Young, uneducated, poor, inner city youth put obama in office in the highest %'s.
Which one of those categories do you fit in LOL

Posted by: obama_fraud

################

I fit in the category that you didn't mention. The other category that voted overwhelmingly for Obama: Highly educated white professionals.

Get over it, fraudster. The only demographic, other than the speaking-in-tongues lunatic flat-Earth religious Right that didn't support Obama with a blowout majority was rural, undereducated white males, and even they gave Obama the best showing any Democrat has seen in decades.

Face it you toothless, inbred trailer dweller; your insane ranting only seems reasonable to you because you are too insane and irrational to recognize it for what it is.

JRM is actually right, Both parties are to blame for the economy, but I think Barney Frank and his group are a little more responsible becasue they passed the laws. Bush and clinton signed some of them too.
But congress has not domne a thing in years and they could have. The pelosi congress is a disgrace !!!

is this all based on the seal displayed on the birth certificate...

hell, i never had a seal on my birth certificate and it never once caused me a problem....and I used it for identification for about 5 years when I lost my social security card.

The comedy continues. Now the bozos will be accusing the Supreme Court of being a bunch of commie muslim terrorists, too!

For 8 years we have survived the Bush's regime's abuse of power, the man many of you complaining now voted for. Obama has not yet taken office and you declare the worst, ignoring the many failings of your parties chosen leadership. The chatter who emphasized Hussein merely revealed his bigotry. And here is a suggestion, all of you claiming to KNOW where Obama was born, show the rest of us proof. A Kenyan birth certicate? Passport records of the days? Anything at all except a reason to whine because your side didn't win? Do you really believe his mother spent his entire life from the moment of birth is I have to hide my son's real birthplace because someday he may want to run for president? Are you all really this ignorant? Or are you simply so bigoted that the very idea of a black man in the white house killing you? 67 million americans voted him into the jogb, more than voted for Bush in either election. Get over it, deal with it, stop wasting time and money on a non-issue, if you hadn't noticed this country is facing some REAL problems.

To JakeD: So the reason you need to see Barack's long form is so that you can see what is in box 7d, is that right? Well, I'm afraid that doesn't make sense to me. Here's a long form: http://passportsusa.com/wp-content/gallery/passportusa/edith_front.jpg . Box 7d clearly asks for "Usual Residence of the Mother: County and State or Foreign Country". So this box is clearly for a situation in which a woman from somewhere else gives birth in Hawaii while she is visiting. It has nothing to do with a birth outside of Hawaii. (How could you not know that? I'm starting to suspect that you're lying to me; that couldn't be, could it?)

here's a last lunch hour thought...

the wonderful 2 political party system we have in America....
would have never let an "unqualified person" (i.e. citizenship)
be their party's nominee for President.

even the Repulsives and Democrats have to follow the law within their own party.

go to obamacrimes.com. They will show you the one they issued with no seal. The one thats up right now on obama's own website clearly shows the seal. They took down the 2nd one with the seal on the back. I will try and find that one !

JakeD,
No. You specifically stated that the laws in effect in 1961 prevented an American national board abroad to obtain U.S. citizen ship and be considered a natural born citizen.

I am asking you to cite the specific sections of the U.S Code circa 1961 that support your point.

republicrat:

As you probably know, the Director of Health and Vital Statistics in Hawaii has verified that the certificate on record is authentic, but NOT that he was born in Hawaii.
_________________________________________
JakeD
Whats the difference? Why would the Director of Health and Vital Statisitics in Hawaii verify the authenticity of a birth record in that State's system which, I presume, all states house records of births occuring in their respective states. New York doesn't register New Orleans' births, California doesn't register Ohios' births. That's just silly and a bit of a stretch.

"Barney Fag, who loosened up all the lending standards to help minorities to buy a home, caused a huge real estate bubble. What law did Bush sign to cause all this, idiot. Dems were threatening to sue banks if they didn't give out these loans and scumbags like you blame this on Bush and the Republicans."
---------
First of all it was a bill authored by a Republican majority and signed by then President Clinton in an effort to act in a bipartisan manner.

Banks were threatening to be sued because they were discriminating not on the basis of eligibility for a loan, but on the basis racial origin.

If you are curious enough, try googling "The Ownership Society" speech by President Bush and you will see for yourself how much of this got out of control.

It is no secret that Republicans are the party of deregulation, and there is something to be said for that, but just like our lives are governed by laws or religious writings, the financial sector needs to have some regulation to keep it from imploding on itself, or a few greedy people taking advantage of a wide swath of the populace.

There is plenty of blame to go all around, but when one party has control of congress for 12 of the last 14 years and control of the white house for 8 (after being left a pretty sweet financial deal from Clinton) and then the economy turns to crap then they have to shoulder the majority of the blame or that means that even when in power they are weaklings.

you are probably some high school dropout with no job, or you do have a college degree but you chose a stupid profession that only pays 30-40 grand. Pick a better profession. If you want to make any money, get your degree in something other than liberal arts, You can't wipe your but with it !!! LOL

kevinschmidt:

I think thinman1 was referring to electors in States that McCain WON (but I could be wrong about that ; )

thinman1:

My argument is that Barack HUSSEIN Obama has not proven he is a "natural born" citizen and should do so, sooner rather than later.

where is it documented that President-Elect Obama released 3 different copies of his birth certificates?

and for those on Ipods and hand helds.....what information do you need from the CODE?
I am in it all the time......

Kevinschmidt,
You make is sound as though the Electoral College is some Democratic conspiracy...which, by the way, is what I suspect you believe.

The Electoral College can't be controlled by anything as its members are elected every four years BY THE PEOPLE and then promptly disbands after meeting.

THE PEOPLE, this time around, elected more Obama Electors than McCain electors. It was in the papers. Perhaps you saw a few stories about it.

Geezle, another total moron. You can't be that stupid to blame the st of Hawii for changing the birth certificate posted by Obama. you are so out of the ballpark of life its not funny !!! whats your IQ, 60, 70. and I am serious. go take one and call me when you get to 135.

kevinschmidt,
A Democratic controlled Electoral College? You mean the Electors selected by individual citizens are all Democrats!?!?! Even the ones the McCain won, who will also cast their ballots on 12/15?

Get over it. Obama won.

Posted by: thinman1 | December 8, 2008 2:52 PM

What are you talking about?

You apparently have a serious comprehension problem. A grade school level remedial reading course is highly recommended for you.

And I don't have to get over anything. My whole contention is that Obama did win the election, Constitutionally eligible or not!

In fact the whole notion of Constitutional eligibility became a moot point on Election Day.

WE THE PEOPLE have spoken and WE chose Obama. On December 15, the Electoral College can ignore the will of WE THE PEOPLE at their own peril.

Question to all:
In Section 2 of the Constitution (right after the we, the people preamble, etc)...
what/whom do you believe the language of "electors" meant...
to the founding fathers?

The state of Hawii officials should be prosecuted and put in jail for giving out illegal birth certificates. If you don't have a record from a hospital you should never be issued a birth certificate and Hawaii officals did this on a regular basis. How did they get away with doing this.

HE RELEASED 3 DIFFERENT COPIES OF HIS BIRTH CERT. WHY, WHY, WHY,

Don't call me names, but answer the question !!!

Posted by: obama_fraud

______________________________________

If you have a problem with the documents, complain to the State of Hawaii, as they are the ones who generated the documents and vouched for them.

Oh, and BTW, you're an ignorant, redneck retard, you know that? You are a frothing-at-the-mouth, gibberish-spouting, conspiracy-theorizing, tinfoil beanie wearing loon. You're an embarrassment to the species.

There you go. Now you can ignore the facts and focus on my calling you "names". I see them more as accurate descriptions of a deranged individual, not as "names", though being deranged and stupid, you are incapable of recognizing your own absurd and hilarious rantings for what they are.

JakeD,
I'm just asking you to support your arguments. As I too am posting from an iPhone, I know what it can do as I have already found the U.S. Code. But I'm not going to do your work for you.

Clearly you can't support your own points. How typical of Republicans and conservatives, epecially.

What's your next argument going to be? Make it good...how about how Obama is really a cyborg and they REALLY can't serve as President. How about that? Hee hee.

thank you j2hess

for posting (keypoints) of the USCODE
on citizenship.

That "far right wing conspiracy" sure doesn't want President-Elect Obama to take office, do they?

I want Barack to bump up security all around for himself and his family.
I am getting shades of JFK with all this hullaboo about his citizenship.

Are you all that angry.......really?

OK, I will stick to my original point. WHY SHOULDN'T ANY CANDIDATE HAVE TO DEFINATELY PROVE THEY ARE ELIGIBLE TO BE ON THE BALLOT ? End of story. I guess you don't, if you are Obama. God forbid should we make a half black man be accountable.
By the way, I am a libertarian, not a republican. They are both idiots

kevinschmidt:

There have been faithless electors before ; )

The real travesty here is not the issue itself, but what's behind the issue: a constitutional crisis.

Here we have government boldly operating against the very laws they've sworn to uphold...rewriting them as they go and as they see fit...whereby denying "We the People".

And what's even worse is that we have a false messiah who believes everything written about him, except the truth.

Posted by: angeljoymom | December 8, 2008 2:46 PM |

Yes, I've felt the same way for the past eight years.

Don't worry, the false messiah Dubya/dick will soon be out of office.

Then we can begin the investigations, prosecutions, incarcerations, and ceasing of their ill gotten booty.

thinman1:

I will argue as I please -- I can't look up EVERYTHING for you from my iPhone -- I mean, you even think that McCain's slate of electors will be meeting in the State Capitols, I guess. LOL!

"And what's even worse is that we have a false messiah who believes everything written about him, except the truth."
Posted by: angeljoymom | December 8, 2008 2:46 PM
__________________________________________
Why do you people keep referring to Obama as the messiah - He is just a man as far as I know. This messiah complex seems to be more of your problem than his.

To blame Republican for this whole mess, shows you will never be able to think on your own and you just will never get it, ever. The Democrats like Barney Fag, who loosened up all the lending standards to help minorities to buy a home, caused a huge real estate bubble. What law did Bush sign to cause all this, idiot. Dems were threatening to sue banks if they didn't give out these loans and scumbags like you blame this on Bush and the Republicans. They do take soem responsibility, but idiots like you, will never understand whats going on around you !!!

republicrat:

As you probably know, the Director of Health and Vital Statistics in Hawaii has verified that the certificate on record is authentic, but NOT that he was born in Hawaii. Big difference, don't you think? The ONLY legitimate reason I can think of for not allowing the original LONG FORM birth certificate to be produced in a court of law -- not sure if the Judges were named Tom, Dick or Harry -- is if Barack Hussein Obama SENIOR was not his real father. At this point, however, it is more important to determine whether he is Constitutionally eligible to become President.

anger is a gift...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1T8xgHdMEM

kevinschmidt,
A Democratic controlled Electoral College? You mean the Electors selected by individual citizens are all Democrats!?!?! Even the ones the McCain won, who will also cast their ballots on 12/15?

Get over it. Obama won.

JakeD,
Here's what you wrote:

thinman1:

Check the laws in effect in 1961 (Obama's mother was not old enough to take advantage of that provision at the time ; )

I'm just asking for proof, i.e. the relevant section of the U.S. Code, not an unsubstantiated reference to a lawsuit.

I will make the same request of you that I did to obama_fraud: make one point, stick to it and defend it. Stop hopping from point to point when the facts don't support what you're saying.

geezle, you are just an ignorant, uneducated pinhead with no clue. Try getting a job for a change. Young, uneducated, poor, inner city youth put obama in office in the highest %'s.
Which one of those categories do you fit in LOL

JRM2:

As you can see, at least kevinschmidt and angriestdogintheworld are stating otherwise (I suspect you will too if and when it is proven that Barack HUSSEIN Obama was born outside the State of Hawaii ; )

If the director of health and vital statistics in Hawaii has verified that the certificate on record is authentic, what is the problem? Any Tom, Dick or Harry should not be privy to the information, only those who have a need to know when rules dictate that a birth certificate be presented such as in acase of applying for a passport (Obama has one), applying for a drivers' license (Obama has one), security clearances (Obama has cleared security).

Obama has shared a copy of his birth certificate-as far as I know, he is the only one who ran for president that has. If anyone knows of another president-elect or president who has shown theirs, let me know. I wouldn't want every Tom, Dick and Harry veiwing my birth certificate either.

Some fringe elements will never be satisfied - be it a lie or the truth - if it does not fit within their theory.

Get over it and get a life.

thinman1:

Let me clarify that I am not disputing Obama's American citizenship. The pending question, in my mind at least, is whether he is a "natural born" citizen.

kevinschmidt:

We'll have to agree to disagree on that (also, the Electoral College does not even meet until December 15th to make him officially President-Elect ; )

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 2:36 PM

The chances of a Democratic Party controlled Electoral College committing mutiny against the will of WE THE PEOPLE are remote.

Remember, WE THE PEOPLE can peaceably assemble and have our employees address our grievances any time WE want.

If the Electoral College does not want the streets of Washington, D.C. filled with WE THE PEOPLE on December 16, and if they do not want to be out of a job on December 17, then it would be wise of them to obey OUR will on December 15.

Obama_fraud,
There you go again, changing the topic when the FACTS don't support you.

Please, please, please, make a point and stick to it.

thinman1:

It is included in the Keyes lawsuit -- again, I am not disputing Obama's U.S. citizenship, just that he has not proven he was born IN Hawaii -- have you read that lawsuit, or do you want a link to that?

the thing is.... none of us really knows where we were born. All we know is what they tell us. Obama's mother knew enough to register her off spring as an American. That is good enough to proceed on because it is all semantics and from an existential view, he is an earthling thus by natural law qualified to lead other earthlings if enough earthlings desire said. If there was a "certificate" problem Rodham Clinton would have been the nominee... who would have gone on to lose against McRunt on the Wall Street issue alone (HRC represents Wall Street).

The real travesty here is not the issue itself, but what's behind the issue: a constitutional crisis.

Here we have government boldly operating against the very laws they've sworn to uphold...rewriting them as they go and as they see fit...we have SCOTUS declining to hear a case that represents the hearts of many...whereby denying "We the People".

And what's even worse is that we have a false messiah who believes everything written about him, except the truth.

Thinman: I thought he wrote the dissenting opinion in that case. I could be wrong. I was only pointing out that the court is kind of whacky at times. Obama may have won, but he deficately cheated.

Illegal campaign contributions is the next case coming up. He has done so many shady things and eventually they will all come out, one way or another.

Also, how can the Kenyan Gov't seal a record that doesn't exist. Just a food for thought. ALSO ,, HERE GOES THE DEFICIT. I can't believe you Obama-bots b-itched about the deficit (and rightfull so) but now Obama has promised trillions in new spending !

If you think we can spend 700 billion on the bailout, 35 billion on the auto industry, 300 billion on infrastructure and then if you want 40 million people to have health insurance that would cost about another 100 billion dollars a year.
add it up moron. Thats over a trillion dollars. OMG, this will be thefinal straw.
we are screwed and I can say this, Don't blame me, I didn't vote for the idiot

I think the 7th provision covers Obama:

***********************************
The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

* Anyone born inside the United States
* Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
* Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
* Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
* Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
* Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
* A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

Geezle:

I live the "redneck" portion of California that passed Proposition 8. It won't be just the South this time around.

JakeD,
Wong again. The provision has no age limitations. If you believe it does, please respond with the applicable section of the U.S. Code.

I've read it. Have you?

thinman1:

Check the laws in effect in 1961 (Obama's mother was not old enough to take advantage of that provision at the time ; )

obama_fraud said: "I WILL NEVER ACKNOLEDGE THAT FRAUD AS MY PRESIDENT, EVER !!!

Fine. Consider yourself invited to leave the United States. Go someplace where your sort of lunacy is respected. Go someplace that practices the type of politics that you like. Go someplace that has the wide-open free market economy you want so badly. Go someplace dominated by crackpot religious fundamentalists, like you want America to be. Go to... let me think on it... Yes! I have the perfect country for you! Go to Afghanistan!

Face facts, obama_fraud, your 'team' LOST! We Americans have a lot of hard work ahead of us trying to repair the damage to our country caused by your gang of ignorant vandals. It will take a lot of effort for us Americans to put right what took years of neglect and even deliberate sabotage at the hands of the Republicans to inflict; we don't want to have to listen to your benighted, insecure, selfish WHINING the whole time, so just GTFO!!

If, on the other hand, you are suggesting with your above quoted comment that you and the handful of redneck cretins like you want to ignore the democratic process and escalate things to a civil war, then, by all means, bring it on. We kicked your worthless, primitive a55es in the last one and we'll do it again. America is long overdue for taking out the (trailer) trash anyway.

Obama_fraud,
You asked people not to call you names. DOn;t I deserve the same respect you want for yourself.

I answered your question and because you didn;t like the answer you called me named and changed the subject. Again.

Too bad you can't do any better in a civilized debate.

Clarification:

I said WE THE PEOPLE, collectively, can ignore the Constitution any time we want, not amend it.

Our powers to override the Constitution should and have been limited to very infrequent occasions, such as the six occasions I spoke of in my previous post where Constitutional ineligible candidates were elected to and served in Congress.

These acts did not 'amend' the Constitution, they ignored the Constitution.

We do not want anarchy or mob rule in the U.S., so WE should adhere to the normal method of amending the Constitution. It is the best way of reaching a general consensus.

obama_fraud:

Regardless of whether American cities burn to the ground, the U.S. Constitution must be followed. Better sooner than later, I always say. Somehow, Obama's original LONG FORM birth certificate will get out. I would hope he does the right thing if (when) it is proven he is not a "natural born" citizen.

"FactCheck must be on Mars. What they examined, while it may be "acceptable" as proof of citizenship, is anything but an "original" document. It's clearly not 47 years old, and was obviously a modern derivative of the original. My original birth certificate, which I have, looks its age (58 yrs), was filled out by hand, has my footprints on it and is on the hospital's own paper (has a large logo on top) with a gold seal in one corner with the hospital's name embossed on it. There's no confusing it for anything else."

You IDIOTS don't even know what you are talking about.

Your precious little hospital "birth certificate" with the little tiny baby footprints on it and signed by the doctor is nothing but a souvigneir...it has no basis as a legal document whatsoever.

The only certificate that counts is the one filed with the administer of public records and vital statistics in the state you were born in. For Obama, that would be Hawaii, and that has been researched and confirmed as factual. period. end of story.

Your "original" birth certificate is kept by the state, and when you request a copy, you are given a "Record of live birth" which is the document that is required by the State Department as proof of birth for everything from a government security clearance to a passport.

This has been resolved. For chrissakes, Let. It. Go.

JakeD,
Per the laws of this country, babies born overseas to American parents ARE NATURAL CITIZENS.

Fruitcakeman is an appropriate name for you. Hurry up, the Simpson's may be on TV. Maybe you could go play guitar hero, because you obviously are not watching any educational channels.
what a fruitcake !!!

LOL

obama_fraud,
You know who was in the majority of your land seizure case? Scalia, Thomas, Kennedy, Souter, and O'Connor. In other words, all of the conservatives.

What's your point? An issue with the documents? The Supreme Court? Or what? Try sticking with one point instead of throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks.

Obama won. Get over it.

thinman1:

Let me clarify that I am not disputing Obama's American citizenship. The pending question, in my mind at least, is whether he is a "natural born" citizen.

kevinschmidt:

We'll have to agree to disagree on that (also, the Electoral College does not even meet until December 15th to make him officially President-Elect ; )

I knew the supreme court will decide not to review this case bacause the inner cities would be burnt to the ground if it ever turned out he wasn't eleigible. If this were brought to them much earlier, they would have reviewed it ! Its sad though. The supreme court is not a popularity contest. This is the same court who took someone's land for a private (thats right, private) construction project. That was a horrible decision. I was amazed. You aint seen nothin yet, Obama gets to pick the next supreme court justice. Scalia is one of the best on the court. I would bet he decided to review the case, but it took 4 to review. You can guarantee the liberal puke Gindburg and a couple of her buddies on the court voted against it.

Just because Donofrio and Berg have time to waste trying to make a name for themselves does not mean the rest of us including to courts should waste their time. Hot air from many people is the same as hot air from a few. Responding to it is a waste of time.

kevinschmidt:

"WE THE PEOPLE" can amend the Constitution any time we want to allow foreign-born citizens to become President. How about if Obama was not a resident of the U.S. for more than 14 years, still O.K. to swear him in?

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 2:21 PM |

The time to question a candidate's Constitutional eligibility is before the election, not after.

The whole question of Constitutional eligibility was rendered moot on Election Day.

Obama was indisputably elected on Election Day by WE THE PEOPLE.

Regardless of his Constitutional eligibility or ineligibility, Obama is now the President Elect.

WE THE PEOPLE the supreme and sovereign power in the U.S. have spoken. Our will must be obeyed by our federal government employees if they value their jobs.

ARG!!!! STOP THE INSANITY. How dare you attack ALAN KEYES. His boyfRIENd, the reverend WILEY "COyotte" DRAKE is our high priest. WE WORSHIP ALAN KEYES since hIS BOYFRIEND is our HIGH PRIEST, and HE bravely threw his OBAMA LOVER lesbian daughter out OUT OF THE HOUSE!!!! SHE DESERVES to be HOMELESS. We will not wast the FLYING MONKEY PEOPLE and little worms like yourselves. WE WILL ONLY SEND our QUEEN and THE FLYING MONKEY PEOPLE TO DESTROY YOU. ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK!!!

JRM2 and Dan4:

I just want to see the original LONG FORM birth certificate, specifically box 7, which would tell us whether he was born out of the State but simply registered as a "Honolulu" birth (as was allowed at the time).

Your presumtion is that the campaign was responsible for the documents. WRONG. The campign obtained them from the State of Hawaii. That explains the multiple releases.

The Supreme Court's refusal to hear the case that Barack Obama is not a "natural born citizen" is not surprising.

The Supreme Court is traditionally slow. Although our Constitution states we can always file a claim against the State and Government it does not state that anyone has to listen. I believe in President Elect Barack Obama yes I do. He was elected by an America that wanted change. Is he American enought for me? No, not for me, my family goes back so far that we were here before America Became America. Can he do the job? Yes. He is still an elected President of the United States of America, and as such is to be respected. We need change in America, Yes we do. It is his right to be the MAN OF THE NATION. He worked very hard for it. My own feelings are as Amercans we need to back the man of that the majority backed.

I do not think this is a Supreme Court Case of any other Court Case.

The Supreme Court's refusal to hear the case that Barack Obama is not a "natural born citizen" is not surprising.

The Supreme Court is traditionally slow. Although our Constitution states we can always file a claim against the State and Government it does not state that anyone has to listen. I believe in President Elect Barack Obama yes I do. He was elected by an America that wanted change. Is he American enought for me? No, not for me, my family goes back so far that we were here before America Became America. Can he do the job? Yes. He is still an elected President of the United States of America, and as such is to be respected. We need change in America, Yes we do. It is his right to be the MAN OF THE NATION. He worked very hard for it. My own feelings are as Amercans we need to back the man of that the majority backed.

I do not think this is a Supreme Court Case of any other Court Case.

If you followed this issue for a while you would know this

1st copy released had no seal. October

2nd copy released had seal on the back (november) that should have been able to see on the front, but couldn't

3rd copy released had seal on the front
released in December.

Unbelievable. Even if he was born here and somebody photoshopped this to help Obama, they only made it worst.

HE RELEASED 3 DIFFERENT COPIES OF HIS BIRTH CERT. WHY, WHY, WHY,

Don't call me names, but answer the question !!!

To JakeD: You wrote: "While the birth certificate that FactCheck.org examined is, indeed, satisfactory proof that he is an American citizen, the LONG FORM birth certificate -- which has not been released -- would prove if he was born outside the State of Hawaii and simply registered as an American citizen (as was allowed at the time)."

But, but...the FactCheck.org certificate clearly says on its face that the "Place of Birth" was Honolulu. End of story, right? What else could you want to know?

kevinschmidt:

If Obama was only 33 years old, you think "WE THE PEOPLE" could elect him legally too?

JRM2:

In the Army, and then again first as an attorney and later as police board chairman.

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 2:16 PM |

Reread my post.

Legally a 33 year old candidate can be kept off the ballot.

However, on at least six separate occasions in U.S. history, people were elected to Congress who were Constitutionally ineligible because of age. All six elected candidates did indeed serve in office.

That is the power WE THE PEOPLE have. Collectively, WE can do anything we want. WE are the sovereign legal and legislative authority in the U.S. Not even our three branch federal government or our U.S. Constitution has authority over our collective powers.

I know it takes some getting used to after a lifetime of having our federal government telling you what to do. But the collective powers of WE THE PEOPLE indeed rule supreme over our federal employees and all laws including the U.S. Constitution.

OBAMA- COME CLEAN OR STEP ASIDE!

Three law firms & $1M to keep his Hawaii "vault"
original birth certificate from being examined to determine if he is eligible to be POTUS & the SCOTUS passes the buck?

Why won't Obama release the "vault" original of his birth certificate?

Why won't Obama release his applications for admissions to Occidental,Columbia & Harvard Law School & his transcripts from those schools?

What passport did Obama use in 1981 to travel to/from Pakistan & Indonesia?

What passport has Obama used to travel to Kenya?

Did Obama ever register for Selective Service?

If not, why not?

Why won't Obama release his complete medical records for review, not merely a one-page summary?

These are valid questions & concerns!

Unanswered, they will fester, taint & more
every action of the Obama Administration.

COME CLEAN WITH ALL THE DOCUMENTS,OBAMA, OR STEP ASIDE!

"Thanks for answering the question. It's not so "obvious" that some Obamaniacs ON THIS THREAD are claiming he should be President even if he isn't a "natural born" citizen"
-----
I haven't seen anyone on this thread take that stance, maybe some are ill-informed of the laws, but none have made the outright claim that a person who is not a natural born citizen should be allowed to be POTUS or just because he happens to be Barack Obama.

The state of Hawaii and the Supreme court all seem to agree that there is sufficient documentation that he is a natural born citizen and there does not seem to be credible evidence that he is not.

What more do you want?

What you probably want is for him to be dragged down because you are unhappy with the way the democratically held election turned out.

As to the citizenship question, let me clarify it with a few items taken from the laws of these United States.

FACT: When someone is born over seas to American parents, they are still American citizens (once registered with the embassy), but also, depending on the country, retain citizenship of the country in which the birth took place.

As a counter example, babies born in this country to foreign embassy personnel and others are American citizens and are also citizens of the coountry of the parents.

But for those of you for whom this explanation will not suffice: Obama won. In the words of Justice Antonin Scalia commenting on Bush v. Gore, "Get over it."

kevinschmidt:

"WE THE PEOPLE" can amend the Constitution any time we want to allow foreign-born citizens to become President. How about if Obama was not a resident of the U.S. for more than 14 years, still O.K. to swear him in?

LABC: I support every comment you have made. I am glad SCOTUS threw this out but if we think the neo cons or racist who keep challenging the presidency of Obama will go away...no. They just CANNOT stand it.
Cannot wait until January 20th!

How could you say something so stupid and ignorant. I am a strict constructionist. You might want to get a dictionary. I am the one who believes we should follow our laws at any cost !! Its amazing the stupid comments that come out of liberals mouths

Folks:

No one is questioning whether Obama is a US citizien. The constitutional requirement for the presidencey rises higher- you must be a NATURALLY BORN CITIZEN.

My initial thoughts would be that if you were born on American soil (regradless of your mother or father's citizenship), then you are a naturally born citizen.

Donofrio contends that since Obama had dual-citizenship AT BIRTH, he is not a naturlally born citizen. It is clear form the constitution that the founding fathers recognized that THEY were NOT natural born citizens, and thus they put in a granfather clause for themselves, but it would not apply to Obama (nor anyone else today). From an "original intent" perspective, the Donofrio case may hold some water. We may never know, or if we do it may be too late.

Other cases contend other issues.

www.JoeSixPack.me

JakeD - next canard? next canard? LOL! Oh, lawdy,ain't you fancy. And Alan Keyes can file his nails for all anyone cares. The suit will only drain money out of some idiot's wallet (looking at you) and is as meaningless as the previous ones. Obama was born in Hawaii, he met all the eligibility requirements to run for office. He won - why you right wingnut idiots demand that others bend to your twisted desperate world view ("I demand Obama prove to me that he was born in Hawaii) is why you are so outside looking in.

To Jake D.

Obama has provided his birth certificate to those that matter. In this case it isn't you. The bloggers on the Internet do not dictate anything let alone trump the 4th and 5th amendments or the privacy act of 1974. The state of Hawaii has certified his birth certificate and in this case that is good enough. So all your whinning is falling on deaf ears.

Krisipuu:

Same reason he didn't bring up Rev. Wright -- it didn't poll well internally -- in addition, he had his own issue regarding "natural born" citizenship.

Hey Krisi, You are a little behind in your reading. The case went to court and McCain released his records, which included exactly where he was born. By the way McCain was also born to 2 american parents. Obama was born to a foreign Mulsim. Slight difference between the 2 don't ya think. Idiot !

Jake... feeling Gigi today, and so NEW TOPIC. Back before Obama ran for Prez his college room-mate from Harvard (Intl relations major) was on Charlie Rose. After Harvard, this guy went on to form a political movement.... called Rage Against the Machine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1T8xgHdMEM

At least Kevin is honest. He doesn't care about the constitution !!!

Posted by: obama_fraud | December 8, 2008 2:05 PM

Actually, unlike your dishonesty, I do care about the Constitution.

So sorry you are just too stupid to understand the power of WE THE PEOPLE.

Why do you hate the Constitution and the American Way?

kevinschmidt:

If Obama was only 33 years old, you think "WE THE PEOPLE" could elect him legally too?

JRM2:

In the Army, and then again first as an attorney and later as police board chairman.

Enemy of the state understands this issue. OBAMA-BOTS dont care and will never answer any questions you pose to them.
What about him releasing 3 different birth certificates after the first one was proven to ba an obvious fake !!!

Posted by: obama_fraud | December 8, 2008 1:53 PM
_______________________________________

Seriously, how will you (or anyone else for that matter) PROVE your contention; he wasn't born in the US?

Also, there's at LEAST 2different versions of Birth Certificate/Certificate of Birth/Certificate of Live Birth in most states.

Honestly, say he was born in Indonesia, HOW can you prove that, other Nations especially not as advanced as ours won't have what you seek.

As a matter of fact, I'm certain US States didn't have the "verification" I'm certain you guys want; video footage, Sworn Testimony from attending Physicians (what if they aren't born at a Hospital?), ...

But in contrast I don't recall this kind of "Ground Swell" concerning McCain's birth, questions yes but not the vehemence I've seen from you guys?

If a STATE says a person has MET their qualifications to be deemed a citizen born there, shouldn't YOUR ISSUE be with HAWAII and not Obama?

I'm certain he was quite young at the time of the alleged infraction?

I wonder if other Presidential Electees had similar scrutiny as Obama?

You are right, Cal has the right to be stupid ! Look at prop 8, (good decision)
But the gays are trying to overturn it again.

Also,
DON'T YOU THINK IF THIS WERE ALL BS, THAT OBAMACRIMES.COM WEBSITE WOULD BE SHUT DOWN IN A SECOND AND HE WOULD BE GETTING HIS BUT SUED OFF ? But it didn't happen and its been up for months.

Its not over either. Other cases have a better chance based on who brought the case. Preyy interesting the court would not comment at all.

This, from bjlopez1130 at 12:57 PM, bears repeating:

"If there was any hint that Obama was not born in Hawaii it would have been brought out during the campaign. You can be the McCain camp or the GOP for that matter investigated that. If they thought for one second that him not being born in the United States was true we would of known it by now and we would not have Barack Obama as the President of the United States."

Perhaps one of the birth-certificate-conspiracy promoters could give us a reason why the McCain campaign totally ignored this "controversy."

Or was McCain in on it, too?

obama_fraud:

No need to level ad hominem personal attacks either.

JRM2:

It is not necessarily treason.

eps0609:

There are definitely major problems facing our next President. Hypothetically, though, if he is not a "natural born" citizen, you would agree he cannot even become President, right?

JRM2 wrote "No it doesn't -- let me try it this way -- if REPUBLICAN Governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, had won the election instead of Obama, should he be allowed to become President of the United States?"

Apples and Oranges. Arnold never have been allowed to even run for the nomination of his Party. There was brief discussion at the time he won the election in CA as to whether an attempt would be made to amend the Constitution so that he could run, but that obviously would be too high a mountain to climb for very little return.

Posted by: kwbinMD | December 8, 2008 1:55 PM

Ahnold could legally be denied a place on the ballot because he is obviously not a natural born U.S. Citizen as required by the U.S. Constitution.

However, that does not mean WE THE PEOPLE are powerless to elect him to be our next president. In fact WE THE PEOPLE can collectively do whatever we want in the U.S., including electing a foreign born as our next president. WE THE PEOPLE do not need prior permission or approval from our representatives in our federal government. WE are the boss of them, they are not the boss of us.

The U.S. Constitution was written to limit our federal government, not WE THE PEOPLE.

See my previous posts in this thread for further explanation.

(NOTE TO AHNOLD: Don't get any bright ideas. It's definitely not going to happen for you. Stick to acting... like a governor.)

If you can't even get Scalia and Thomas to look at this alleged birth certificate fraud, then I think it's time to pack it in, folks.

I'm sure if you look hard enough, you conspiracy theorists can find some other triviality to get worked up over.

JakeD: When did you ever swear to uphold the constitution?

Just curious, like maybe you were a public official at some point in your life.

JoeT1:

I am specifically referring to box 7 on the LONG FORM. It is there, so why won't Obama simply allow it to be produced in court?

cdierd1944:

Hypothetically, though, if he is not a "natural born" citizen, you would agree he cnnot become President, right?

angriestdogintheworld:

No.

This idiot thinks that every state has the same forms for birth certificates.
Its hard to argue with someone who has a single digit IQ. Let me clue you. Hawaii does things differently than your state !!
Dummy

we should saw cut California from the US and kick it (and that a-hole Pelosi) right into the ocean.

Posted by: obama_fraud | December 8, 2008 2:01 PM |
----------
America is a Democratic Republic, California is a valued member of that Republic (not to mention the 7th largest economy in the world) so what you are proposing is treason which does not help your argument.

With all the things going on in the US. With all the REAL issues that should be before the high court, this is stupid.

It shows that we have idiot justices, especially Clarence Thomas, to even waste time on such a matter. To even have a chamber hearing on it Friday was a waste of valuable time. It is also a waste of OUR tax dollars. They should be ashamed.

j2hess:

No (and I am not disputing his American citizenship). He has to be a "natural born" citizen to become President though. Until that is proven, I cannot and will not -- pursuant to the oath I swore to defend the Consitution from all enemies foreign and domestic -- acknowledge him as President.

angriest dog: You having job problems ???

Try getting one !!! That swhy you voted for Obama, "what in it for me"

Don't ask what you can do for your country, ask what Obama can hand you !!!
LOL
I have to get back to work.
Maybe you OBAMA-Bots could try the same thing. Total losers !!!

If you lie to the police you can be charged with filing a false report. There should be a way to stop these idiots from tying up our courts with these specious law suits. At a minimum they should be required to pay court costs. As a taxpayer I would much rather pay to bailout GM than to pay to allow these zealots to file phony court cases.

but you will agree... that San Diego, is just like Compton....

the amount of misinformation here is staggering.

FactCheck.org isn't "official" in any sense - it's just well respected by both parties. The Annenberg folks are died in the wool repbublicans, so forget the bias issue anyway. You can't attack them as "unofficial" just because they did look in to it - that's what they do, and no one claimed they were "official" in the first place.

The only "official" certification of birth comes from a state official responsible for vital records. The one in Hawaii says the state records show Obama was born there. That's the one and only official record you are going to get.

There's usually no such thing as a "vault" copy of a birth certificate. The first one issued to my parents is in my hands, and I still use it just for the fun of using one dated 1953. But it's not the state's copy, and I don't think there even is one that looks like that anywhere in the county I was born. The state doesn't keep a certificate that looks like the one they issue if you ask for one. I could have asked for a new one every year, and every couple years I bet they change what it looks like, and the copy protection, just like driver's licences and currency.

There's no difference between a long form and a short form, DC gives you a couple of each when you order a BC. You can't get the "original" no matter what - again, there is no such thing. A BC is a certificate by the state issued then that certifies that according to the official vital records of the state, however kept, that someone was born there. It is not a piece of paper created shortly after your birth that is preserved til the end of time.

That pretty thing you got from the hospital? not a birth certificate. you can't do anything with it but frame it.

real BCs? don't usually name the hospital, the doctor, or the parents. the fake hospital ones do.

obama_fraud? if you want to play with statistics, yes, he won under educated minorities in inner cities, but he also won highly educated white males in suburbs, and won cities in general, suburbs, women, and educated folks in general too.

At least Kevin is honest. He doesn't care about the constitution !!!

JackInEC:

Please review my posts on that issue, and let me know if you have any questions.

JohnQuimby:

The Supreme Court has not considered ANY case on its merits. As I already stated, neither Donofrio nor Berg have legal standing to contest the election. Alan Keyes (filed a lawsuit out here in Sacramento) OTOH does and will proceed forward.

Obana_fraud.... you be having girl problems I feel sorry for you son, Obama has 99 problems but this ain't one......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CaiO_H6oeU

I thought that a child born to an American citizen had citizenship regardless of where they were born. Unless someone can come up with evidence that Obama's mother renounced citizenship before he was born, the whole birthplace question is moot, is it not?

Hey willseatle; do a little research before you open your ignorant mouth. Being born to one American parent does not make you a citizen and then you say things about people who are much more educated on the issue than you are !!!

angriestdogintheworld:

I live in San Diego.

WillSeattle:

The law in effect at the time granted "natural born" citizenship to any such child as long as the mother was above a certain age. Obama's mother was under that age at his birth. Next canard?

By dismissing this issue, the court confirms that Barack Obama was born to a US citizen in the State of Hawaii and there is no natural born citizenship issue to consider.

we should saw cut California from the US and kick it (and that a-hole Pelosi) right into the ocean.

Welcome to Mexifornia !!! I love this one,
A Cal black woman is putting a law on the ballot about depoerting illegals because her son was executed by an illegal alien that was just in custody a few days earlier for a serious crime and he was not deported becasue of the liberal idiots !!
He was an MS-13 gang member

This idiotic argument over birth certificates is moot. Obama's mother was a US citizen. By law, children born to American women--even if they are overseas--are American citizens.

So even if Obama was born in Africa, Indonesia, or Saturn, as the child of an American woman, he is a natural citizen of the United States.

kwbinMD:

That was actually MY follow-up question, since JRM2 was declining to answer the original question. The hypothetical remains valid: assume that the California Secretary of State certified Arnold's candidacy based on a Hawaii birth certificate.

It's amusing the conspiracy nuts glommed onto this, given their comrade McCain was actually born in Panama, which isn't a US state like Hawaii.

That said, any child of an American mother is by virtue of birth a US citizen, but I guess they don't have much brains on the Red Socialist Bushie side of the aisle.

Continued

...the American people would never lose a struggle for democracy on their own country -- IF they understood it as such. So, of course, this direct attack (seeking to re-decide or overrule the election of Obama) is styled as "upholding the Constitution." In effect, our own national hunger for the restoration of justice, the rule of law and the Constitution is being harnessed -- in a twisted way -- so that the Constitution can start being enforced FIRST against Barack Obama. That's why it's important to see these lawsuits for what they are -- and go on offense against those who dislike democracy.

WE SHOULDN'T EVEN GO TO THE "MERITS" ON THESE CASES BECAUSE NOTHING IN THE NATURE OF WHAT THEY SPEAK OF JUSTIFIES A JUDICIAL OR CONGRESSIONAL OVERRIDE (OR RATIFICATION) OF THE PEOPLE'S DECISION.

We don't need their "help."'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7951296

In other words, WE THE PEOPLE, collectively, have decided that Barack Obama, Constitutionally eligible or not, will be our 44th president. Our decision cannot be overridden by Congress, the Supreme Court or even the Constitution.

WE THE PEOPLE are the supreme sovereignty and hold supreme legal and legislative authority over the U.S. Our sovereignty supersedes the combined powers of our three branch federal government and the U.S. Constitution.

Remember, the U.S. Constitution was written and designed to limit our representational federal government's authorities, not WE THE PEOPLE's authorities.

WE THE PEOPLE can indeed elect anyone we want to be president, regardless of what the Constitution says, and there is nothing anyone or any law can do to stop us.

Barack Obama is indeed the President Elect.

END OF STORY!

so, uhh Jake, you don't live in Compton?

The idea that WE THE PEOPLE are the sovereignty and supreme governing authority in the U.S. has escaped both pro and anti Obama camps.

The notion of Obama not being qualified to be president arose during the primaries and was rejected by the Democrats because they choose him to be the Democratic Nominee. The notion was again rejected by WE THE PEOPLE on election day when he became the undisputed President Elect.

At this point, only WE THE PEOPLE, collectively, can change the outcome of the presidential election. Any other argument concerning his qualifications, including his place of birth, at this point is moot.

This is a highly significant point because I suspect in the very near future, a bogus birth certificate will originate from Kenya or Indonesia. But even if it were found to be real, that would not change the outcome of the presidential election. WE THE PEOPLE have spoken and WE chose Obama to be our 44th President.

'This country is owned by We the People. We created the Constitution to limit and shape the powers of government. We can, in point of fact, knowingly elect a felon to the House or Senate and prior US Supreme Court precedents like Powell v. McCormack uphold the inability of the House or Senate to remove the people's choice for any reason other than the qualifications clauses in the Constitution, which are minimal.

>>>In turn, at least six US Senators and Representatives have served full terms even though elected when they were TOO young under the constitution.

Do We the People, the sovereign power of this country, have the power to resolve conflicting claims on a birth certificate where one side claims Kenyan birth and ratify that or assume the risks of that?

Puh-leeze. Of course We Can. And yeah, we can ignore discriminatory claims about kenyan birth that, even if true, just don't matter.

Can the Courts or Congress, on a basis completely independent of the will of the people, second-guess the election, tell us to "try again", or veto our choices?

No They Can't.

2B Continued

Not one case was dismissed on the merits because it never can be. How can you rule against someone abiding by the law ?
The supreme court is just a big chicken with no balls.
Rememeber when all the scum looted LA. That would look like a kindergarden picnic if we ever took obama from the office. Race riots would start and it would take another 100 years to fix it and the supreme court knows it. Thats why they won't evver review the case. I wouldn't be surprised if a few $%$$#@ threatened to kill the justices if they review the case

JRM2 wrote "No it doesn't -- let me try it this way -- if REPUBLICAN Governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, had won the election instead of Obama, should he be allowed to become President of the United States?"

Apples and Oranges. Arnold never have been allowed to even run for the nomination of his Party. There was brief discussion at the time he won the election in CA as to whether an attempt would be made to amend the Constitution so that he could run, but that obviously would be too high a mountain to climb for very little return.

JRM2:

Thanks for answering the question. It's not so "obvious" that some Obamaniacs ON THIS THREAD are claiming he should be President even if he isn't a "natural born" citizen. As for 200, I thought that election should have been decided in the House of Representatives, per procedures in place via the U.S. Constitution.

Britt:

I am simply asking that Barack HUSSEIN Obama prove he was born in the State of Hawaii.

Enemy of the state understands this issue. OBAMA-BOTS dont care and will never answer any questions you pose to them.
What about him releasing 3 different birth certificates after the first one was proven to ba an obvious fake !!!

Let's just put this foolishness to rest once and for all. Don;t want to turn Obama's first months into a Bush-style legitimacy argument. Especially one this far-fetched.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Actually, there have been 3 different B.C.'s released by Obama that I have seen and many others too.
1st one had no seal
2nd one had seal on the back
3rd (& most recent) has seal on the front now.

its unf-ing believable that some of you don't see or care he did this !!!

EnemyOfTheState:

In 1961, Hawaii allowed American citizens born outside the State to registered their birth. Ergo, it is not necessarily the case that Obama was born in the State of Hawaii. Several witnesses are on the record to his mother's travel abroad while she was pregnant. Obama's alleged PATERNAL grandmother has stated he was, in fact, born in Africa. The orginial LONG FORM birth certificate -- which would prove this question either way -- has not been released by the State of Hawaii, nor examined by FactCheck.org or anyone other that the Director of Health Statistics. Next canard?

Care to answer my hypothetical question then?

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 1:41 PM
-------
My point JakeD is that you are asking a question with an OBVIOUS answer. I believe in the constitution, of course, someone who is not a natural born citizen should not be allowed to become President because it says so in the constitution.

So apparently you know more than the Supreme court (who's members are right leaning) or more than the state of Hawaii. You are just recycling garbage that's been posted by by a bunch of conspiracy nuts, where were you during the 2000 election?, probably criticizing the conspiracy nuts back then.

Arnold can't be president because he was born in Austria. This is not a complex concept.

MarkAntney:

Are you RatThe?

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 1:37 PM
_____________________________________

No but what I am is unafraid to ask SOMEone a sincere Direct Question:):):)

Oh and to add to the list on GOP Reasons for Removing Obama from the Presidency:

21. He has strong reservations concerning the 4out of 5 Dentists that recommend Dyntine.
22. On an occassion, he eats only ONE Lays potato chip.
23. At 28 He ordered and paid for a Whopper and a Small Fry, yet he accepted a Whopper (WITH cheese) and a Large Fry.
24. He has worn "WHITE" AFTER Labor Day.
25. He has worn "BLACK" BEfore Labor Day.
26. He infrequently will smother "Vanilla" Ice Cream WITH "FUDGE".

I went onto Obama own website and saw the 1st birth certificate and the 2nd one that was changed, so I don't believe everything I hear, but this was right from Obama's own site. They clearly modified the most recent posting of the birth cert. Explain that one. Again, there will be loser after loser calling me names but won't answer my question !!!

Yes.

Your question remains hypothetical because the issue has been repeatedly dismissed in the only forum that counts.

So far no one has been able to find standing, cause or sufficient proof to consider it.

obama_fraud said:

here are some interesting facts; These are the highest % by category whoi voted for OBAMA (see CBS news)
Blacks = 95%
Incomes under $15,000 (73%)
no high school = 67%
gays/lesbians = 70%
Inner Cities = 63%
Whites voted for McCain in a Landslide !
Especially middle class whites !

If you want to know something about someone, just look at who supports them !

****
You forgot to include who else voted for Obama:

56% of all women
51% of voters with some college education
53% of voters with a college degree
63% of voters with one graduate degree or more
NY Times

JRM2:

No it doesn't -- let me try it this way -- if REPUBLICAN Governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, had won the election instead of Obama, should he be allowed to become President of the United States?

Oh yeah!
Now and later, we would like to know about the ABILITIES for Presidency!

Tô Tấn Tài, FR, Boston, MA.

FOX News, oops

RE:"Go to obamacrimes.com and look into the situation showing the changed birth certificates. I can't believe that they released one and then changed it and released another one. Its unbelievable."
------------------
You're right, it is unbelievable. Don't believe everything you read on the internet, especially from a partisan source with an agenda other than the truth.

Obama was born in Hawaii; Hawaii was a state in 1961:

Ergo, Obama is a "natural born" American.

Again, to the simple people out there, Obama has not proved anything by releasing a certifcate of Live Birth. There is so much silence on this issue and secrecy that even the Obama supporters should be saying, " just released the full length birth cert & end all this" He won't for some reason and that reason is obvious !!

THIS JUST IN FROM FAX NEWS. There is another case which has not decided yet, so it aint over yet !!!

As a former CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR, he would know that.

JohnQuimby:

Care to answer my hypothetical question then? Keep in mind that I am not questioning whether Barack HUSSEIN Obama is an American citizen -- my Governor is an American citizen too -- if they aren't a "natural born" American citizen, however, then they aren't qualified to become President of the United States.

"I can't believe that they released one and then changed it and released another one. Its unbelievable."
----
You are right, you shouldn't believe it and I can't either.

Try getting your information from more than one source, sources other than the source that feeds into whatever hatred you have for whatever reason.

JakeD

Meantime I'll be enjoying the inauguration of Barrack HUSSEIN Obama as 44th president of the United States.

FYI: He'll be sworn in by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court - which just dope slapped Donofrio.

Obama did get more than 50% of the vote and the people elected him, true, but I only point out the fact we are a pretty divided country and I don't see it getting any better.

JRM2:

It's a hypothetical, not rhetorical, question. Care to answer it?

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 1:30 PM |"
-------
JakeD, a rhetorical question is a like a leading question. It can only be answered one way. The question you asked that I was referring to was "should he be allowed to become President even if he wasn't born in Hawaii?" the topic being that he is not a natural born citizen of the United States, so that would qualify as a rhetorical question.

And yes, you are right that he will not be inaugurated until Jan., however I believe that you and obama_fraud are claiming that you will "never" acknowledge him as your President which would lead one to believe that your refusal would still hold true even after he has been inaugurated.

Does that answer your question?

MarkAntney:

Are you RatThe?

Dan4:

While the birth certificate that FactCheck.org examined is, indeed, satisfactory proof that he is an American citizen, the LONG FORM birth certificate -- which has not been released -- would prove if he was born outside the State of Hawaii and simply registered as an American citizen (as was allowed at the time).

JakeD:

He was born in Hawaii. The State of Hawaii has told us so, using the standard document ("Certification of Live Birth")that it ALWAYS uses to answer this question. The fact that YOU want some other document that the state of Hawaii does NOT routinely issue is irrelevant. To answer your question, if he was NOT born in Hawaii, then he should NOT be president (and, if we were to somehow find that out after he is sworn in, he ought to be impeached for fraud). However, the fact that the state of Hawaii won't issue a document to your liking--printed on pink polka-dot paper, listing his mother's doctor's height and weight, etc., etc.--does NOT mean that he hasn't proven that he was born there. He has proven it, and he was born there.

Go to obamacrimes.com and look into the situation showing the changed birth certificates. I can't believe that they released one and then changed it and released another one. Its unbelievable.
Again, tell me where I am wrong saying every candidate should have to prove the 3 conditions are met to be on the ballot. Why have a constitution ? Mind as well shred it now.

here are some interesting facts; These are the highest % by category whoi voted for OBAMA (see CBS news)
Blacks = 95%
Incomes under $15,000 (73%)
no high school = 67%
gays/lesbians = 70%
Inner Cities = 63%
Whites voted for McCain in a Landslide !
Especially middle class whites !

If you want to know something about someone, just look at who supports them !
Posted by: obama_fraud | December 8, 2008 1:08 PM
___________________________________

Why didn't you post those that had Higher Education Levels?

Higher Income Levels?

Latinos, Asians, others...?

Also, your "White" Majority means very little, Unless you think it's 1808 and not 2008?

Also in spite of your MATH Selectivity, Obama received MORE than 50% of the Vote.

It's "Democracy in Action"; maybe you have a problem with the Concept?:):):)

I hope you're Senior in Age or you're in store for a LOT of disappointment in giving credence to "White" Majority votes winning NATIONAL elections in this country in the future? "Socialism", "Communism", Fake Plumbers, "Boo!!!"... doesn't work either.

I'd check EBay for a TIME Machine, if I were you, it's your ONLY hope:):)

Simpletons were satisfied when Obama released his phony birth certificate. You morons don't even know that he released 2 different birth certificates. One was found to be fake on 6 different acounts and then they modified it showing the seal as clear as a bell. I can't beleive he got away with doing that. Seriously, they released one with no seal, then when caught, they modified it to have the seal on it. Its amazing how dumb some of you really are !!! How do you trust someone whi clearly did that. look into it. !!! Believe me, they did release 2 different ones.

LABC:

Hypothetically, then, if he wasn't born in Hawaii, should he be allowed to become President?

obama_fraud:

I join you in refusing to acknowledge Barack HUSSEIN Obama as President (he is also not even officially President-Elect until 12/15 ; )

JRM2:

It's a hypothetical, not rhetorical, question. Care to answer it?

LABC:

I'm staying right here, until the Good Lord calls me home. Maybe you can answer my question: should he be allowed to become President even if he wasn't born in Hawaii?

Posted by: JakeD
*******************
Uh, he WAS born in Hawaii and last time I checked, that is a state in our country. Now, I like a good conspiracy like the next person - read and enjoyed the Da Vinci code - but I am not going to sit here and humor some bigoted a$$hat like you who cannot accept the reality of black president and wants to desperately believe that he is some manchurian candidate born in some mysterious part of the world. You lost, you have nothing, no proof, just wistful thinking. The rest of the world is moving on and preparing for the transition of power. Stay or go, America is moving on. You and the sad sack bigot brigade need to find something else to occupy your time. Perhaps some charity work - because when the Good Lord does calls you home, if you are not careful, it might just be to hand you your bags and point downward.

With every paranoid post, you undercut your "argument," obama_fraud. But you are entertaining.

whem Obama spends 700 billion dollars on the banks, 35 billion on the car companies and another 300 billion dollars on construction projects, the budget will explode making the Bush deficit look like a kindergarden picnic. The dollar will plunge and interest rates will skyrocket and then you will see some real job losses like you have never seen, just watch !!!

Jake D.... tell us where it hurts.... specifically. While you are pondering that inponderable, some tunage....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M52ZmJXKcIw

"should he be allowed to become President even if he wasn't born in Hawaii?

Posted by: JakeD | December 8, 2008 1:17 PM |"

------------
Rhetorical question of the day....

Everybody except the right-wingnuts seems to be satisfied that legal proof of his citizenship has been provided.

To "_virginian_": You said, "While I would like to know if BHO is in fact an American citizen (that "Certificate of Live Birth" from Hawaii is NOT a birth certificate)..."

That's not the question. The question is, Was he born in Hawaii? The State of Hawaii issues a "certificate of live birth" to prove you were born in Hawaii. So the "certificate of live birth" IS proof that he was born there; in fact, it is the ONLY proof you're gonna get from the Hawaii gov't. And it is proof that any SANE person, including the US Passport Office, accepts.

Please. I'm eating lunch, BigDaddy. Thanks for the image of Rush and Coulter getting it on. Perhaps I'll skip dessert.

Typical liberal idiot ! Its so easy to engauge most liberals because they can never argue on the merit of an issue. They just call you names and never, never, never answer the real question and this issue is no different !!
The ignorant, uneducated, biased, OBAMA-BOTS still don't answer the question. Why shouldn't every candidiate havce to prove they are eligible ?/ They can't and again won't answer the question. The only reason the supreme court didn't review the case is because all the stupid minorities would burn down the entire country if we upheld the law. sad world !

JakeD and obama_fraud: illegitimate love children of Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter!!

"WHAT IF OSAMA BIN LADEN MOVED HERE, WOULD YOU LIKE HIM TO BE ON THE BALLOT TO ?"
----
First of all its "too" as in also, not "to".

And no, I wouldn't want him to be on the ballot, I would perform a citizen's arrest and let justice take its course.

Here's the problem: The members of the Supreme Court aren't the people you think they are. They are pod people, brought here from another planet. Barack HUSSEIN Obama is merely their tool.

What we're talking here is the end of life-on-earth-as-we-know-it.

Be afraid. Be very afraid. The black helicopters are coming to get you.

Yes, I would. Arnold can't and should not be able to run for president.
WHAT IF OSAMA BIN LADEN MOVED HERE, WOULD YOU LIKE HIM TO BE ON THE BALLOT TO ?

If he didn't breal law after law to get elected, I would support him even if he was a democrat. I supported Clinton when he won because he did it legally !!!

GOP Reason(s) to REMOVE Obama from Presidency, cont:

13. At the age of 7 he was observed taking money OUT of a Wishing Well at a park.
14. At 19 he didn't "Call Back" his date the next day as he promised.
15. At 27 he took the Tag off a Mattress.
16. At 27 he also didn't say ""GOD" Bless you", after his friend sneezed.
17. At 28 he was observed USING a bottle of "White" Out.
18. At 29, he was observed running past a Store, clearly marked "White" Sale.
19. At 30, without provocation he chose a "Devil's" Food Cake over an "Angel" one at a Bakery.
20. He has a HISTORY of using His "BLACK"Berry

LABC:

I'm staying right here, until the Good Lord calls me home. Maybe you can answer my question: should he be allowed to become President even if he wasn't born in Hawaii?

obama_fraud, you need serious psychiatric help! I mean medication, NOW. Or a lobotomy. You'd be much more useful as a vegetable than the clearly rabid animal you are. Just for the record, NOBODY gives a (&*$&*^ whether you acknowledge Obama as the President or not. The rest of the world does, and is busy rejoicing about it. Since when do the opinions of fringe, racist idiots matter in the least? I just love how much this is irking you. Like I've said before, IN YOUR FACE!!!

"So now Prince William can marry an American woman and their son can become President of the USA?
----------------------------------------
Actually yes, if he marries her in the USA and the child is born in the USA. Are you so intelligent that you didn't know that?"

Actually, actually...Prince William could have knocked her up on a one-night stand and, as long as she gives birth in the US of A, her son could be Prez.

"I WILL NEVER ACKNOLEDGE THAT FRAUD AS MY PRESIDENT, EVER !!!

Posted by: obama_fraud "
--------
So you have a hatred for democracy?, is that it?. I mean, I can see why one would say that in a contested election like let's say the supreme court steps in to stop something like a recount, but to say that when one candidate wins by over 8 million votes and an electoral landslide makes me thing you hate my right to vote, why do you hate America and its values?

bgreen2224 (and JohnQuimby):

You aren't saying that Barack HUSSEIN Obama should be allowed to become President even if he wasn't born in Hawaii, are you?! If you want to do that, you would have to amend the U.S. Constitution. Would you be saying the same thing if my State's Governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, had won too?

Neither Donofrio nor Berg have legal standing to contest the election. Alan Keyes, however, does. Somehow, Obama's original LONG FORM birth certificate will get out. Better sooner than later, I always say.

Posted by: JakeD
*******************
Yeah, the company you keep - Alan Keyes - LOL!! Long, short, medium ...whatever size pr form of birth certificate, it will be the same thing. U.S citizen and Hawaii born Barack HUSSEIN Obama will be sworn in as the 44th president of the United States. You don't like it, JakeDuh, there's the U.S. border - don't let it hit you where the good Lord split you on your way out. And take the rest of the unhappy loons with you...

Arghh!! Not the flying monkey people!!??

Call Homeland Security.

Obama_fraud,

I hear South America is lovely this time of year. Perhaps you could immigrate to Chile.

"WRONG ! Swearing to defend our constitution under oath would be lying.

Just ask Clinton about lying under oath !!!

Posted by: obama_fraud"
--------
Whaaaat?
Obama is a constitutional law scholar, unlike his former who's administration has done so many happy things to our constitution.

yes, janeyre, people can be this irrational. It's easy to see why the Supremes didn't take the case if the "evidence" and delusional "arguments" of the believers who post here are typical.

By the way, did you know that Hillary Clinton is Rosemary's baby? I read it on a blog.

WE DO NOT ACCEPT THIS JUDGEMENT. Me and SARAH PALIN and the ARMY OF THE FLYING MONKEY PEOPLE and their brave allies, the ARMY OF THE MUSHROOM PEOPLE will attack the SUPREME COURT BUILDING and you know what. ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!!!! TORA TORA TORA!!! We will prevail!!!
P.S. Philip J Berg will be available for a question and answer period after the ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!!!!

factcheck had nothing to do with it. That site has been proven to be put up the Obama camp. Nice try

"So from now on we must worship at the alter of FactCheck.org?

Posted by: block89 "
------
FactCheck.org is merely reporting their findings, had they found otherwise, they would have reported it also and THEN you'd probably be worshipping at the alter.

One by one, the heads of the racist right-wing bigots will swell, stretch and then explode as it dawns on them that a non-Aryan has become the POTUS and Commander in Chief of the greatest and most powerful country in the world. It's fun to watch.

here are some interesting facts; These are the highest % by category whoi voted for OBAMA (see CBS news)
Blacks = 95%
Incomes under $15,000 (73%)
no high school = 67%
gays/lesbians = 70%
Inner Cities = 63%
Whites voted for McCain in a Landslide !
Especially middle class whites !

If you want to know something about someone, just look at who supports them !

The status of the child is that of the mother. That rulw is taken from the former slave statutes.

I have never seen so many pathetic creatures before. This is just too funny at this point. Can we please just arrest these people, who keep trying to make The President Elect, anything but a Citizen of the US? What part about this, are they not getting? Can people be this irrational? I guess they can. Just pathetic, I say.

Neither Donofrio nor Berg have legal standing to contest the election. Alan Keyes, however, does. Somehow, Obama's original LONG FORM birth certificate will get out. Better sooner than later, I always say.

WRONG ! Swearing to defend our constitution under oath would be lying.

Just ask Clinton about lying under oath !!!

obama_fraud, you should share your theories with your psychiatrist, not the readers of the Washington Post. Get a life, dude.

over and over and over again, the intellectually bankrupt Obama-Bots never answer the actual question. Why shouldn't every candidate have to prove they are eligible to be on the ballot. Its that simple.

I WILL NEVER ACKNOLEDGE THAT FRAUD AS MY PRESIDENT, EVER !!!

It's still only about the constitution. There are still more cases to come... now and then again later every time there's an issue with a law of his creation if the Justices keep putting it off. It still needs to be heard.
TRANSPARENCY IN GOVERNMENT HA!HA!HA!

I'd suggest that if somehow it WAS found that President-Elect Obama was not a U.S. citizen that he would not be impeached, as this is not an example of a high crime or misdeamnor.

OH WHY OH WHY AM I EVEN TYPING IN HERE!?

did any of you OBAMA-BOTS know that Obama won his 1st major election by getting his opponent removed form the ballot by a technicality ??? probably not, most of his supporters don't know anything about him or the gov't

The GOP right wing wackos lose another battle.

What is wrong with these people? They will do anything but address actual issues. They see "conspiracies" behind everything.

Theirs isn't a philosophy - it's a pathology. They need psychiatric, not judicial, intervention. May they get the help they need.

Truly dumb.

Now that the bogus citizen issue has been put to rest I can hardly wait to see what the right wingnuts come up with next. Maybe it really is time to bring back the fairness doctrine. These right wing whack jobs are doing a terrible disservice to the country they claim to love.

Lets clear this up for all the uneducated people out there. Obama did not release any information showing where he was born and he never will ! He produced a birth certificate that was a proven fraud. It also doesn't show any pertinant information. Hospital, doctor, father, mother, etc. The state of HAWAII should be prosecuted for illegally issuing birth certificates to people they know were not born in the USA !!!

Some people have nothing better to do. If there was any hint that Obama was not born in Hawaii it would have been brought out during the campaign. You can be the McCain camp or the GOP for that matter investigated that. If they thought for one second that him not being born in the United States was true we would of known it by now and we would not have Barack Obama as the President of the United States.
Get over it people, he is going to be our next President in about 6 weeks. Stop trying to find loopholes to stop the process that the majority of people have spoken for which is having Barack Obama as our next President.

President-elect Obama will be our 44th president, so get over it and move on!

Some journalist could wonder how such kooky right wing madness could climb so high...with lightspeed!

Supicious! These things take time & money for all us other Americans.

But as has been the case with all the other dubious/transparent rightwing madness Americans have witnessed since the semen of the blue dress investigation(s) in the months prior to the 9/11 disasters....
the American school of journalism finds Brittany & Barney the dog much more fascinating.
The flow of funds from rightwing fronts just don't interest them.
Ask Melon Scaife & the Goldbergs.....not to mention the donors to the pappy Bush library.
Donor list.....no big deal! After all we know they're behind Georgie Boy.

We want Bill Clinton's sure as Hades.
This is why corporate America can give workers the shaft just before X-Mas bonus time! Merry X-mas suckers!

And...then get a 700 Billion taxpayer handout to boot!
Now that is gall.
Get the Costa Rica relator on the blackberry baby.
Big shot needs some fun time.

This fact from another paper puts the issue to rest, as far as I'm concerned-

"In addition, Factcheck.org reproduced an announcement of Obama's birth, including his parents' address in Honolulu, that was published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 13, 1961."

Now, unless the conspiracy lovers want to accuse the Dems of time travel, the issue is dead.

O.K. Once and for all, when a person is born (and that birth can take place anywhere in the world) to an American citizen, ie Obama's mother, that person automatically becomes an American citizen as well. My source: The U.S. Constitution.

It's not over either ! I heard their is a million dollar reward for anyone producing his birth certificate from another country. If that shows up, then he gets impeached and the US Supreme court gets egg on its face !!!

Oh good lord. He won. He's gone through a gazillion checks prior to running. Can we move on now?

This is why the court system is backed up and miserable, unavailable to those of us who really NEED it!

What else do you want him to do?

For for those who say, "well, all he has to do is produce a birth certificate," Obama already did.

In addition, the head of the Hawaii Dept. of Health validated it and said that they had the original in the state vaults.

Beyond that, responding to every crackpot lawsuit is a waste of time and just encourages them.

Julie10, I was about to say the exact same thing, because that is the very sort of document I tried to take to the DC DMV (hey, I thought it was valid), and I had to contact my county of birth to get an official copy. And yes, my footprints were adorable. :)

The OBAMA-BOTS can now go back to drinking the cool-aid again !!!

Its a sad day for our constitution. How could they not uphold our laws of this nation. The supreme court was in the tank too. We will have a bigger problem if it ever gets proven he was born somewhere else !!!

HE STILL HID ALL THE INFO AND NOW WE MAY NEVER FIND OUT THE FRAUD MAY NOT BE A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN !!!

Also How can the Kenyan Government seal Obama's records. How can you seal something that does not exist. THE ISSUE IS STILL NOT DEAD, JUST A LITTLE HARDER NOW !

While I would like to know if BHO is in fact an American citizen (that "Certificate of Live Birth" from Hawaii is NOT a birth certificate), I'm even more disturbed by some of the comments I've seen here by people claiming not to care if he's a citizen!

You folks do realize, don't you, that being a natural-born citizen is a CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENT for the presidency? I'll bet that you're the same people who cried and whined for the last 8 years that Bush was "taking away [your] constitutional liberties." Yet, when your guy is operating in constitutionally questionable territory, you find reasons for why it doesn't---or shouldn't---matter.

The hypocrisy I see in BHO voters is astounding.

patrick69_69 said "The fact that 44 is now being "read in" to the presidential daily security briefings proves that 44 has been fully vetted and provided clearance by all relevant agencies just to be in the same room as the report."

Interesting that you bring this up. I asked a friend in the intelligence community about this and he told me that there is no background check or vetting process once someone is elected POTUS or VPOTUS (or to the House or Senate for that matter). The clearances basically come with the job...it's not like you can say to POTUS "we discovered something in your background which precludes you from certain information."

My understanding is that there is an expedited process for people on the transition team who still need to be cleared, but had McCain won the election Sarah Palin would have had access to certain classified information almost immediately with rest coming after inauguration.

Would anyone who has made a post on this article object to making the presentation of a vault copy of the BC a requirement for future elections to POTUS? I thought not---nobody wants to go thru this B.S. again...and I believe this controversey will, at the very least, produce that kind of legislation in the not-too-distant future...when that DOES happen, it will be interesting to see BHO submit his with his application to the FEC for re-election in 2012 (or maybe there will be an exception written in for incumbents)

Based on what I know about President-elect Obama is that he was indeed born in Hawaii (USA).

Just recently I had to go through a personal experience of ordering certified copies of the birth certificates of my two girl daughters and my son. My oldest daughter was born in Pima County, Arizona and my other two were born in Imperial County, California. I originally requested certified copies from the county vital statistics of the two counties and states involved. After a long time of waiting, I went through a private service provider of original certified birth certificates. I received all three from the private service provided with the stamp and seal certifying the B-certificates....they only have very minimal information. A few days later, I received the three I ordered from the counties vital statistics (courts) and they were different B-certificates with more biographical information such as the fafher and mother's name, name of MD etc., and the stamp and seal.

I believe the people who question the birth certificate of our next president got different certified copies it is probable why the confusion...or they just are out of their mind spending that kind of money on legal fees and court expenses. Please asked them to rather donate their money to charity organizations or spend the money in filing criminal charges against proven federal official government corruption.

block89, that has always been true. It has nothing to do with Obama.

Where were all these "natural born plaintiffs" for the last 8 years while Big Brother has been listening in on our communications, torturing people and throwing them in jail without charges and without even telling anyone who was being held.

Republicans will try anything to get their ways. They hate lawyers but jump to the legal profession to fight their nonsense. What a bunch of fools.

Somebody wake me please and tell me this isn't happening, lol...IDIOTS!...IDIOTS!...IDIOTS!...Stupidity like this gives me a headache!...why are our courts and even our media tied up with garbage like this...here, for the last time Obama is Black, Obama is the son of a White Woman and an African Man, Obama is a Christian, Obama is a US Citizen, and most importantly Obama is "YOUR" President, so GET OVER IT!!!!!

It's a little late for this kind of bull. The people of America have spoken and spoken loudly. They chose Obama regardless. Try arguing the pointless technicalities and people will decide to change the constitution in the end. People are the ultimate decision maker in democracy. Period.

Where were these same idiots when we tried to get information about gwb,jrs air force performance records or the real truth on his suspected substance abuse?

NOWHERE because they are not interested in the truth, instead they remain in denial about the real reasons for their obsessive hatred for OBAMA.

If you guys were concerned about the integrity of the Constitution, Bush and Cheney would be sharing a cell in the Dry Tortugas.

This is about sowing doubt with the viral power of a "meme".

Reading you all attack each other is way more interesting than the story itself.

Did anyone contest McCain's birth records?
Why not? Hussein shouldn't have anything to hide.

1. Wife HATEs America (didn't work)
2. He PALs around with terrorists (didn't work)
3. He's a Community Organizer and Likes ACORNs:):) (didn't work)
4. He's a Muslim (didn't work)
5. He's a Socialist (didn't work)
6. He's not an American (didn't work)
7. He P'd in the bed at the age of 2.
8. He has 2unpaid parking tickets.
9. He gave his youngest daughter a scolding.
10. He didn't leave a tip once at Pizza Hut
11. He owns an inordinate amount of "BLACK" Suits:):):)
12. He reads "GOOD" or "GOODer" than most:):)

jwebb41 - what you have is a hospital's certificate of birth. Birth Certificates are issued by the state where you are born. If you ask for a certified copy, you get a new document certified by the Records of Vital Statistics for the state. But I'll bet your tiny little footprints were cute! cute! cute!

So now Prince William can marry an American woman and their son can become President of the USA?
----------------------------------------
Actually yes, if he marries her in the USA and the child is born in the USA. Are you so intelligent that you didn't know that?

KOOKS!
KOOKS!
KOOKS!

The Supreme Court is in the tank!

"That isn't at all independent. Nor, should it be used as a FACT source for anything about Obama."
Posted by: sullivan1 | December 8, 2008 11:13 AM
_________________________________________

sullivan1: The fact that 44 is now being "read in" to the presidential daily security briefings proves that 44 has been fully vetted and provided clearance by all rlevant agencies just to be in the same room as the report.
You really need to stop...you're embarrassing yourself....really

Not enough troops to prevent the resulting mob from coming to D.C. and burning the place to the ground!
LMAO!
(You stupid a** right-wing kooks. Did you think we'd let you do this and live to tell about it?) HA HA HA HA HA.
Flower Power SUX.

FactCheck must be on Mars. What they examined, while it may be "acceptable" as proof of citizenship, is anything but an "original" document. It's clearly not 47 years old, and was obviously a modern derivative of the original. My original birth certificate, which I have, looks its age (58 yrs), was filled out by hand, has my footprints on it and is on the hospital's own paper (has a large logo on top) with a gold seal in one corner with the hospital's name embossed on it. There's no confusing it for anything else. This crap FactCheck dished up as "original" was laughable.

So now Prince William can marry an American woman and their son can become President of the USA?

The first clue to Berg's idiocy is that a minor child cannot renounce his or her citizenship. So even if there were some clueless speculation that he did, it would have no relevance in our law.

As for Alan Keyes, he has jumped completely overboard into a sea of cynical morass, repudiating any possible virtue he ever laid claim to.

So from now on we must worship at the alter of FactCheck.org?

History suggests that there WAS a time when being a natural born citizen was an important enough factor to warrant being included in the constitution as a requirement for holding our highest office. History, particularly recent history, demonstrates that a natural born citizen is completely capable of fighting an unnecessary war, wrecking our economy, shredding our civil rights and destroying our international national standing.
Rather than yield to the temptation of seeking someone NOT a natural born citizen, perhaps we should actively work to make our country live up to its highest aspirations and not down to its dark side.

Those politicians of each party who hold office by seeking more division and appealing to the baser components of our psyche will be all too apparent in the upcoming years and can certainly be voted out of office.

Why not build a country that asks 'how do we find a way to do this together' rather than 'you can't do it unless it's my way.' Both Republicans and Democrats should take note that the electorate is aroused and watching. Republicans already tasted this as so many who retained officed did so by slinking past election day without identifying their political party. Humiliation instead of ejection is just a temporary state.

Those members of each party who seek to impede our nation's progress will always have to answer to their constituents, and those voters seem already awake.

What will they try now? Perhaps argue that the ammendment abolishing slavery was unconstitutional because the damn yankees forced on the South? Is Obama's victory their final defeat in the War of Northern Agression?

When racist republicans say stuff like this. they are declaring a war against all the democrats and 65 million supporters who voted for barack O Bama. There is a limit to bigotry. Democrats need to fight back and make these people's lives miserable.

You guys sure do tend to use "ad hominen" in your statements. The basis for this appeal was just to be able to have forensic scientist look into the birth certificate issue and all the assumed names Obama has had. Did you even read the letter for redress. Whats wrong with being concerned? Listen, a majority of the people concerned in this matter are probably not even Republicans.

Freedom isn't a spectator sport and if you read the Constitution and read how the founding fathers felt in regards to freedom and how hard it is to maintain, you might understand.

I think simply calling them freaks is a cop out and a stereo type so shame on you, shame on you for being angry about people who only want the truth, which in this day is far from transparent.

These suits are ridiculous. At least Donofrio acknowledged that McCain's birth as a "natural" born citizen in the now defunct Panama Canal Zone is questionable. My question regarding Berg's suit is, "Is there any evidence that Obama's mother ever even traveled to Kenya?" Moreover did Obama have the foresight to lie for 40 some odd years about his place of birth on the off chance that he would run for president some day? I don't think it would matter to these fringe people if they located the doctor that slapped his bottom upon birth in Honolulu, they would claim that his appearance was part of a conspiracy. Nothing will convince them.

ravitchm, the Supreme Court has settled it; it refused to hear the case. If there were any merit to the argument whatsoever, esp. when the presidency is on the line, then the case would have gone forward it. The Supreme Court (and a more conservative court than gave Bush the presidency at that) denied cert. End of story. Frankly, I think the Supreme Court owes us the duty to focus on what most needs attention. Clearly this case isn't it. No merit. Cert denied. The Supreme Court has spoken. Let's all move along.

The Donofio case had no merit. I knew that based on my civics class from elementary school. The facts of the other case are without merit because the Supreem Court said it did not. And I have not heard anyone with sound judgment say otherwise.

The two cases point out the weakness of democracy, it can be abused by the unscrupulous.

I doubt there is any merit to the contention that Obama is not a US citizen, but the Supreme Court owes it to all of us to settle once and for all this issue.

David Horowitz: Obama Derangement Syndrome
Conservatives Need to Shut Up About Birth Cert.

"The continuing efforts of a fringe group of conservatives to deny Obama his victory and to lay the basis for the claim that he is not a legitimate president is embarrassing and destructive. The fact that these efforts are being led by Alan Keyes, an unhinged demagogue on the political fringe who lost a senate election to the then unknown Obama by 42 points should be a warning in itself."

These comments from bitter, anti liberal gas bag Horowitz define the "seditious" behavior of certain 5th column elements on the right.

Spreading and defending this stuff makes you identical to those who write and distribute computer virus programs.

The Supreme Court decision is a total slam dunk. It means no more appeals to individual court justices. It's OVER!

You all got poned. AGAIN.

There nust have been some sort of technical error on the Post website. Shouldn't this have appeared on the Comics blog?

It doesn't matter where you came from, it's where are you going. Only his Grandma knew and she's gone so let it go. Coming in the back door is okay. (ask Monica L.)

Sadly, this will not be the end of it. Note that the Berg lawsuit contends that Obama was born in Kenya AND/OR renounced US citizenship in Indonesia. He doesn't believe either one, he just can't believe his next president is a black man (and a Democrat).

The sane members of our society can take some solace in the knowledge that the Supreme Court is well-versed in handling ridiculous lawsuits, and therefore this nonsense takes up a minimum of their time. The rest of us should follow suit.

The sad thing is that there are so many nutters who don't believe Obama is a citizen.

Getting so excited and worked up about this obvious non-issue shows a lack of reality that can be really serious and may be dangerous.

I suspect they have very few normal social interactions.

The many deviants show us that our mental health is really not up to snuff.

Of the two possibilities for US president Obama was clearly the better. It really doesn't matter to me that the term natural is undecided whats important is that we get the best people in the right places who have the benefits of the public in their minds first and not last.

Just look at the mess we are in all from natural borns so perhaps we would be better with the little green man from mars if he, she or it puts this country first.

sullivan1 said "FactCheck is NOT an independent investigation. Look at the header at the top of their website. It is an ANNENBERG affiliate. You know ... the ANNENBERG Foundation where Obama and Ayers have been board members for years on."

Are you retarded, sullivan1? Do you know what the Annenberg Foundation is?? It was established by right-winger and close personal friend of both Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan, Walter Annenberg.

You're going to have to work a little harder than that to get me to believe that the Annenberg Foundation is staffed with left-wing conspirators.

What pathetic morons...

"FactCheck is NOT an independent investigation. Look at the header at the top of their website. It is an ANNENBERG affiliate. You know ... the ANNENBERG Foundation where Obama and Ayers have been board members for years on."

You're right, sullivan1! It IS an ANNENBERG affiliate. What's that you say? The same ANNENBERG Foundation whose president and chairman, Leonore Annenberg, endorsed and donated to McCain's campaign! (see http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/news/PressReleases/1b838127-b4a0-4868-9906-62f555376089.htm)

You mean the COMMUNIST foundation founded for and named after a repuglican Ambassador?

OMG! MSM conspiracy! Massive, fifty-year left-wing scheme to put a non-American (shh, he's AFRICAN!) into the White House!

FactCheck is NOT an independent investigation. Look at the header at the top of their website. It is an ANNENBERG affiliate. You know ... the ANNENBERG Foundation where Obama and Ayers have been board members for years on.

That isn't at all independent. Nor, should it be used as a FACT source for anything about Obama.

Posted by: sullivan1 | December 8, 2008 11:13 AM | Report abuse

#######################################

You have absolutely no proof that Obama or Ayers have influenced the operation of FactCheck. In fact, you have no authoritative backing from anyone that the birth certificate is false.

You are probably one of those people that still believes the WMDs are hidden somewhere in Iraq.

sullivan1 chimed in with a standard rightwing whine:

"FactCheck is NOT an independent investigation. Look at the header at the top of their website. It is an ANNENBERG affiliate. You know ... the ANNENBERG Foundation where Obama and Ayers have been board members for years on."

And that McCain and many Republicans have supported. A convenient fact that you all seem to overlook whenever bringing up this desperate argument.

I wonder if we will have to put up with these garbage lawsuits for 4 or 8 years. It's like these people haven't had anything to do since they went on their 8-year Vince Foster rants. Someone please help them with proper medication and therapy.

Please let this be a signal that the Court is as sick as most of the rest of us are at wingnuts revelling in their ignorance. Let them have all the respect they are due: none whatsoever.

Sullivan1,
Please go and get a life. You're barking up a tree that has long since died. How about real, substantive ideas to improve or economy

to: sullivan1

do your research. Annenberg was a republican and a Reagan ambassador. the foundation's boards have many conservative republican members, including the one that Obama and Ayers served on. much information is readily available, why not take a look before misleading yourself?

Seems like the last, best hope of the right wing conspiracy theorists just went up in smoke. They now have four full years to lick their wounds.

"While I think the case if frivolous, I think the SC missed an opportunity to interpret what "natural-born" should (or was intended) means."
______

Courts have no authority to decide an issue that does not present itself in a case. What you suggest is impossible--there was no such "opportunity."

FactCheck is NOT an independent investigation. Look at the header at the top of their website. It is an ANNENBERG affiliate. You know ... the ANNENBERG Foundation where Obama and Ayers have been board members for years on.

That isn't at all independent. Nor, should it be used as a FACT source for anything about Obama.

The really scary part is that the individuals who are bringing these lawsuits are allowed to vote. It doesn't even sound like they should be allowed to live unsupervised, let alone weigh in on policy matters.

While I think the case if frivolous, I think the SC missed an opportunity to interpret what "natural-born" should (or was intended) means.

Certainly the intention was to ensure that whomeever was elected President would have the concerns of the United States as their priority over all other nations, and have no legal affilation with another country apart from the U.S.

In that day, travel overseas was an arduous thing, something rarely attempted by pregnant women or small children. People tended to stay in the country of thier birth. In that modern day that is often NOT the case, and an updated interpretation of "nationality" needs to take place.

My Take:

You SHOULD be considerd a natural-born U.S. Citizen if you are born to one or more U.S. citizen parents, regardless of where in the world you are born.

You SHOULD NOT be considered a natural-born U.S. Citizen even if you are born within the boundaries of the U.S. and its territories if neither of your parents are U.S. citizens, regardless of the legality of their status in this country.

The right wing lickspittles pushing this tinfoil hat theory are so far down the rabbit hole that nothing can convince them Obama is a U.S. citizen. WorldNetDaily tells these freaks what to believe, and by gosh they are going to darn well believe it.

Can these conspiracy nuts now go out and get a life? Sheesh!

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