Cheney On Whether Iraq War Was Worth The 4,500 Americans Killed: ‘I Think So’
Cheney On Whether Iraq War Was Worth The 4,500 Americans Killed: ‘I Think So’
In an interview airing tonight on PBS’s Newshour, host Jim Lehrer asks Vice President Cheney about the U.S. soldiers who have lost their lives in the war in Iraq. Cheney shows little remorse:
Q: But Mr. Vice President, getting from there to here, 4,500 Americans have died, at least 100,000 Iraqis have died. Has it been worth that?
CHENEY: I think so.
Q: Why?
CHENEY: Because I believed at the time what Saddam Hussein represented was, especially in the aftermath of 9/11, was a terror-sponsoring state so designated by the State Department. … He had produced and used weapons of mass destruction, chemical and biological agents. He’d had a nuclear program in the past. … And he did have a relationship with al Qaeda. […]
And so I think given the track record of Saddam Hussein, I think we did exactly the right thing. I think the country is better off for it today.
Cheney’s comments mirror those of other conservatives, such as House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH), who said that the lives lost in Iraq have been a “small price” to pay, and right-wing commentator Frank Gaffney, who declared that all these troops “did have to die” in Iraq.
The United States did not invade in Iraq because Saddam “had a nuclear program in the past,” nor did he have a relationship with al Qaeda. We went to war because Bush administration officials made everyone believes that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction at that time and an active relationship with al Qaeda. The Iraq war has decimated the readiness of the U.S. military, radicalized insurgents in the Middle East, and strengthened many of America’s enemies. As David Sanger of the New York Times notes, the war also “occupied so much of the attention and the resources of the top levels of the U.S. government that we ignored much bigger threats, short-term and long-term.” Matt Yglesias has also written:
The harsh reality is that this was not a noble undertaking done for good reasons. It was a criminal enterprise launched by madmen cheered on by a chorus of fools and cowards. And it’s seen as such by virtually everyone all around the world — including but by no means limited to the Arab world.
Evidently, all this was worth losing more than 4,500 Americans and more than 100,000 Iraqis.
Transcript:
Q: But Mr. Vice President, getting from there to here, 4,500 Americans have died, at least 100,000 Iraqis have died. Has it been worth that?
CHENEY: I think so.
Q: Why?
CHENEY: Because I believed at the time what Saddam Hussein represented was, especially in the aftermath of 9/11, was a terror-sponsoring state so designated by the State Department. He was making payments to the families of suicide bombers. He provided a safe haven and sanctuary for Abu Nidal and other terrorist operations. He had produced and used weapons of mass destruction, chemical and biological agents. He’d had a nuclear program in the past. He killed hundreds of thousands of his own people. And he did have a relationship with al Qaeda.
We’ve had this debate that keeps people trying to conflate those arguments. That’s not to say that Saddam was responsible for 9/11. It is to say as George Tenet, the CIA Director, testified in open session in the Senate, that there was a relationship there that went back 10 years. This was a terror-sponsoring state with access to weapons of mass destruction. And that’s the greatest threat we faced in the aftermath of 9/11, that the next time we found terrorists in the middle of one of our cities, it wouldn’t be 19 guys armed with airline tickets and box cutters, it would be terrorists armed with a biological agent, or maybe even a nuclear device.
And so I think given the track record of Saddam Hussein, I think we did exactly the right thing. I think the country is better off for it today.
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Why, didn’t Lehrer challenge Dr. Evil on his lies? Why?
January 14th, 2009 at 5:42 pmYou know, we could have gone after Qhadaffi of Libya on the exact same argument: “he used to do bad stuff.”
January 14th, 2009 at 5:45 pmThe fundamental philosophical error of the Bush Administration is that they have always thought that they can make their own reality. Cheney obviously thinks that if he continually claims a connection between Saddam and 9-11 then it will then become the truth. I wonder if he even realizes himself that he is telling obvious lies, or if he simply believes that what he says often enough is true simply by his definition of truth.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:49 pmCHENEY:
“I think so.”
Cheney never answers yes or no. Read everything he has ever uttered, and you will find the phrase “I think” throughout. It is his way out of ever actually making a statement of belief, policy, or position. He’s not the only one to use this verbal vehicle, mind you… it is rampant in politico-speak.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:49 pmmaybe we should send his ass over there for 15 months and see what he says then.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:53 pmIt isn’t like the US ever produced or used any weapons of mass destruction, chemical and biological agents…
January 14th, 2009 at 5:54 pmYeah. He would.
Evil old monster.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:55 pmone response. Dick, if you believe it was right and good, put on khakis and volunteer.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:56 pmoh wait, 5 deferments. Wuss.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:01 pmI can hardly wait to see this bastard buring in what the christians call “hell”.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:02 pmIf those had been HIS children and/or grandchildren, he’d be singing a different tune !
January 14th, 2009 at 6:03 pmBastard !
Amount of war profits divided by 4500…yep—worth it.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:03 pmdbadass Says:
It isn’t like the US ever produced or used any weapons of mass destruction, chemical and biological agents…
Heck, we exported them to our best friends!
January 14th, 2009 at 6:06 pmDonald Rumsfeld gave Saddam Hussein a helluva deal!
“I think we did exactly the right thing. I think the country is better off for it today.”
January 14th, 2009 at 6:07 pmAnd Dick the Dick, I think our country did exactly the right thing in November. I think our country will be far better off in 6 days than it is today.
Paging the Hague… “No Al, not YOU!” Paging the real Hague!
better:
Evidently, in BushCo Bizarro World, all this was worth losing more than 4,500 Americans and more than 100,000 Iraqis.
but a good story anyway, amanda…
January 14th, 2009 at 6:08 pm4,500 dead soldiers and he didn’t feel a thing. He certainly won’t mourn all the dead innocent Iraqis.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:09 pmFolks, the Cheney will be gone in a week. Boehner is still in Congress thinking dead Americans are ‘the price we pay’.
Don’t know about you but I don’t equate dead or maimed soldiers with a KMart Blue light special.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:10 pmCheney, Bush, & Rumsfeld should have been in the front brigade to face combat & to be greeted as “liberators”.
Yeh right, those draft dodging, chickenhawk, cowards would have shit themselves & been fragged within 1 day.
What an absolute disgrace & dishonor to the office of The Vice Presidency of the United States.
This man should be made to feel disgrace & discourn for the rest of his days on this earth.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:13 pm“especially in the aftermath of 9/11, was a terror-sponsoring state so designated by the State Department”
Now, we wouldn’t be talking about the yes-men, crony-laden state department created by your BFF dummya, would we dickie?
Give me a freakin’ break. they told YOU exactly what YOU wanted to hear.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:13 pmAnd we won’t mourn his passing… Or any of the cabal. As a matter of fact, while I usually believe ‘that the death of any person diminishes us,’ I can hardly wait for these people to pass.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:14 pmIwent to Russia 15 years ago and spit on Lenin’s sarcophoguosand StalinI want to live long enough to spit on Bush’s and Cheney’s graves.
Yeah it waz worth it for him
cheney and his gang of theives filled there pockets
our troops filled coffins
no I dont think thats a problem at all
HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE thats what I think
January 14th, 2009 at 6:18 pmOops, didn’t finish. I spit on Lenin and Stalin’ tombs. Not a gonker, mind you, too many guys with Kalashnikov’s around. But, some mist. I made my statement to myself and the family members who died in Gulag’s.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:19 pmNow, I want to live long enough to spit on Bush’s and Cheney’s graves. Hell, if I can get away with it, I’d like to piss or shit right on them.
I’m sorry if this is vulgar, but it’s the way I feel. This cabal has brought this country to the very brink of ruin, if it’s not ruined already.
Goodnight Bush and Cheney and the rest of the cabal. And may God have mercy on your soul’s - if you have any…
Dumb Question:
If one had asked Stalin whether his purges were worth the loss of life, would he have answered yes ?
What about Hitler and the German lives lost invading Austria and Poland ?
In short, ask any military dictator if it were worth the loss of lives, and they will probably answer yes.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:20 pmWow, Cheney can’t even get three words into his answer without lying. “I think….” No, sorry, but it’s been painfully obvious for the last 8 years that you haven’t got a clue how to think.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:28 pm“The harsh reality is that this was not a noble undertaking done for good reasons. It was a criminal enterprise launched by madmen cheered on by a chorus of fools and cowards.” - Yglesias
Well said. But the two main reasons we went to war were 1) The Neo-Nitwit Plan for using the US military might to force “Pax Americana” on the Middle East by “Planting a seed of democracy” and making a shitload of money for Cheney’s friends in the MIC, for in chaos much money can be stolen. And 2) to take control of Iraq’s nearly untapped reserve of oil in their oil fields and force the puppet Iraqi government to sign over rights so BIG OIL could divvy up the oil fields and make a shitload of money for Cheney’s friends in BIG OIL.
Well, the Neo-Nitwit’s plan hasn’t work out, nor has BIG OIL plan to steal Iraq’s oil. The only ones that really won in the war in Iraq were those who were lucky enough to lug off the 12 Billion dollars that was lost and is more than likely in a numbered Swiss bank account.
I wonder how many millionaires were made off the deaths of 4,200 Americans and 10’s of thousands of Iraqis?
“….just in general — let’s put it this way, money trumps peace, sometimes.” - George W. Bush - Feb. 14th 2007
January 14th, 2009 at 6:32 pmfor real, what does this assclown cheney know of sacrifice?
other than the kindergarteners he sucks the blood out of at night in order to survive.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:33 pmWhy of course a Sociopath would think it was worth it.
Five-deferments Dick of course, didn’t think Vietnam was worth it.
Arrest this WAR CRIMINAL and lock him up forever.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:33 pmOf course he would say that, he made billion$ and billion$.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:34 pmQ: But Mr. Vice President, getting from there to here, 4,500 Americans have died, at least 100,000 Iraqis have died. Has it been worth that?
CHENEY: BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
January 14th, 2009 at 6:36 pmThe next recipient of the Madelline Albright Stone Cold Heart award, initiated for her insensitivity over 500,000 dead Iraqi children.
Cheney may eat the heart shaped crystal.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:38 pmBuckie Boy, you are right. Throw this war criminal in jail, then he can think about the war and all his other crimes.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:41 pmShorter Cheney: “dude, my haliburton shares went up about a gazillion percent. WTF?”
January 14th, 2009 at 6:42 pmLehrer should have asked the naked face of evil, Cheney, how much money he made on the war. I reckon about half a billion.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:43 pm“produced and used weapons of mass destruction, chemical and biological agents. He’d had a nuclear program in the past. … And he did have a relationship with al Qaeda.”
Which one of those is the U.S. Government not also guilty of?
No one deserves the fate of the Iraqi people. No one.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:46 pmNot him
Not his kids.
It’s worth it to him to send others to fight his unwarranted war.
May his god damn him to hell for eternity.
Someone put it well here the other day:
ratbuckingfastard.
I have no words to sufficiently apply to this evil man, this devil incarnate - this person who should be begging for his life. There is no god - if there were, this horrible man would be gone from this earth.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:46 pmElBruce Says:
You know, we could have gone after Qhadaffi of Libya on the exact same argument: “he used to do bad stuff.”
Yep. There are probably a dozen or so ‘bad guys’ on the planet and there always will be ‘bad guys’ on the planet. We don’t live on planet Sesame Street. The world has always wondered who put the bug in Bush’s bonnet to invade a soverign nation which could do us no harm, but avoid confrontations with those who can (No. Korea). It is a good question, but provides an easy answer: Oil and to avenge 41’s supposed assination attempt.
So the question Cheney should have been asked was: knowing the true reason for invading Iraq, was it worth the eternal sacrifice of over 4500 brave soldiers? Is blood for oil ever worth it? Of course not.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:50 pmCheney is about equal to serial killers, except he killed about 4,500 people (Americans) — not to mention the 100,000s of thousands of dead Iraqis, children, women, innocents. Doing a balance– serial killers– 10 or so, Cheney– 300,000 or more. Who is the worst murderer/killer? Easy to see- it’s Cheney. What a despicable human, a hateful, diabolical politician. He has no christianity or caring anywhere in his make-up. Hell is waiting open arms for someone who has killed this many innocents. But he has no idea of how evil, hateful, & murderous he is. He thinks God loves him!! What a delusional killer.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:51 pmJournalists never challenge Cheney - if they ask a follow up question, he dismisses it and they slink to the next question.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:53 pmWhen I learned that Russert on MTP was a tool for Bush&Co, my suspicions were confirmed.
Journalism is dead. Real journalists are not on TV; they are relegated to the op-ed pages and certain magazines that are not read by Joe Average. Those whom Joe Average believes are journalists are cowardly stenographers, protecting their own jobs, kowtowing to their corporate bosses, and watching America decline.
They brought us Ronald Reagan and George Bush, while they demonized Clinton and diminished Al Gore. They nearly gave us McCain/Palin, but for an unexpectedly strong Democratic candidate who was able to overcome them. Now they are trying very hard to discredit him, too.
If this is not evidence of is “F-U” to this country then what is? He is maliciously and intentionally flaunting this in our faces with an undertone of “come and get me you bastards” on the side.
He is taunting us because he knows that we won’t come and get him. I say we torture him for every US Soldier killed and maimed in that war, then we throw a couple of thousand small tortures on him for every Iraqi citizen killed or injured.
Throw the man in a hole in the ground then cover him and make him live like the maggot that he is.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:53 pmWhat are two things that Saddam had in common with the US?
DING
I’ll take Bushisms for $200, Alex
January 14th, 2009 at 6:53 pmNow you can join the ranks of the illustrious
In history’s great dark hall of fame.
All our greatest killers were industrious
At least the ones that we all know by name.
But you can reach the top of your profession
If you become the leader of the land,
For murder is the sport of the elected,
And you don’t need to lift a finger of your hand
Because it’s murder by numbers, 1, 2, 3,
January 14th, 2009 at 6:55 pmIt’s as easy to learn as your ABC.
Murder by numbers, 1, 2, 3,
It’s as easy to learn as your A, B, C, D, E,……….
The Police, Murder by Numbers
Cheney can say the loss of lives in Iraq is acceptable because…it wasn’t him!
January 14th, 2009 at 6:57 pmHe is truly showing us how evil he is. I just have to wonder how many of HIS loved ones died in this war. I also have to wonder how much blood money is in his pocket. When are the people going to stand up to the liars, and butchers that are deceiving, and robing this Country.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:01 pmCheney will need to swallow his words when he’s being fitted for his noose. But all I ask is to let him be the first pinata to be broken open by shoe throwing afterwards.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:02 pmCheney has said he doesn’t care over and over again and yet people expect something different. Cheney is worse then Saddam and for 8 years he has pretty much told Americans what they can kiss. Most of the Law Makers were spineless and many from both Parties took the 30 pieces of silver from the Devil. Ask Reid, Feinstein, Pelosi, Kerry, Martha and many many others was it was better to make money from War profitteering then to protect the American people. The Families of the Troops must feel like nothing as they cheered Bush/Cheney and to find out it was all a big lie and their son’s and daugher’s died for Greed and Oil.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:02 pmHe didn’t challenge the 100,000 Iraqis figure. I’ll bet he thinks it’s more than that.
And obviously this new stance totally contradicts his earlier statements:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT7Ik_X1HU0#t=3m30s
Everything was backwards back then.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:08 pmHere’s Al Gore criticizing Bush for not taking out Saddam Hussein.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JE48XHKG64
The Iraq war was begun according to the plans of the Project for the New American Century. They used and abused the U.S. military for their own personal gain and to take over control of middle-east oil. They wanted to take Iran, then North Korea and eventually China. These buffoons thought they could see the forest better by chopping it down. Not only are these morons criminals, but they are still coddled by the MSM for some strange, Orwellian, Twilight Zone reason. And still no investigation(s). If the FBI weren’t a bunch of corrupt pussies, they’d have already arrested most of this group and they’d all be getting a lesson on the constitution and the rule of law with a front row seat. But we get warrantless wiretapping, infiltrated peace groups, grannies investigated about how many cookies they planned to bake for their next anti-war get together. Our government, our law enforcement agencies and our MSM have become sick caricatures of themselves. And we have only ourselves to blame… myself included.
I guess what I’m trying to say is we can’t wait for Obama to do something, we need to demand it!
January 14th, 2009 at 7:08 pmstewarjt Says:
Why, didn’t Lehrer challenge Dr. Evil on his lies? Why?
Lehrer’s a beltway hack. Ever since Robin MacNeil left the show, it’s been an uncritical microphone for every administration mouthpiece since 9/11.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:20 pmDarth Cheney is unrepentently evil. Whenever I see a photo of the guy I can just see the evil emanating from him in waves. The word creepy is far too inadequate to describe the horror of this bipedal carbon based lifeform
January 14th, 2009 at 7:22 pmYou still have to extrapolate from the reasons given to get to a point of imminent threat. That argument is weak enough without it being false.
Was it worth it?
January 14th, 2009 at 7:24 pmFCK NO.
You folks are engaging in collective amnesia or simply ignore facts that stare you in the face. Where were you folks in the days immediately following 9/11? Where were you folks in the period between 9/11 and the start of the Iraq conflict?
I guess you were too busy smokin crack.
Anyway it doesn’t matter. I’ll bet if all of you America haters would have lived in the days prior to WWII, you would have been among the American socialists and communists who PROTESTED our entry into WWII!!!
MORONS
January 14th, 2009 at 7:28 pmI hope, someday, that Cheney (piece of garbage he is) has to stand before the 4,500 Americans’ families whose children have been slaughtered in this unnecessary “war”, and tells them… “It was worth it.” Then let them have at him.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:32 pmCheney is without doubt the most despicable, hateful, stupid, and non-understanding person of anyone in the U.S. admin, other than Bush, who is so totally stupid that he still has no idea why we hate him. Could they be more delusional/stupid/ hateful/ lying?? No, they couldn’t.
Tim Vaculik, where were Bush and Cheney in the days leading up to 9/11? Why did they choose to ignore all the warnings given to them that bin Laden’s attack was imminent. How many of terrorists were from Iraq? And you think we’re the ones smoking crack you braindead dittohead.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:33 pmI am SO grateful that none of you witless wonders had any say in how the United States defended itself over these last eight years. The way you portray yourselves to be so knowledgeable and morally outraged is hilariously COMICAL!
About all the damage you folks are capable of is voting for a socialist, but that’s bad enough…
January 14th, 2009 at 7:33 pmIt wasn’t the Iraqis that ignorned the Constitution. That’s what we got out of it all. We are less free but its not because of Saddam or the Middle East. It’s not worth retro-active immunity or torture or any other broken laws. No Iraqi ever threatened my freedom. We should invade Dallas, apparently.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:35 pmAnybody ignorant and evil enough to come here and defend this vile man deserves to hang next to him on the day of reckoning. Yeah, I’m talking to you Tim. There is no place in hell bad enough for the likes of you and Cheney.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:35 pmHi Tim:
January 14th, 2009 at 7:36 pmStill just posting opinion sans supports? The Socialist thing seems like an after thought. Wanna remind me what is wrong with socialism and why there is so much of it in our not socialist nation?
Thanks
Answer the question Timmy. Why did your heroes fail on such an enormous level on 9/11. Planes were off course for 90 minutes and not one jet was scrambled to shoot them down. Why after the first plane hit were the fighters not sent out. Because Bush and Cheney are the two most incompetent men on the planet or because they chose to let it happen. Either way they both deserve to swing at the end of a rope.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:37 pmShayne,
Now your comment is a perfect example:
There was NO actionable intelligence developed prior to the attack! You can thank former President Clinton for that, along with Jamie Gorelick’s infamous “wall of separation” between our agencies that DID have information that needed to be further investigated.
Get a clue, will ya?
January 14th, 2009 at 7:38 pmdbadass,
Yup. That’s what I do just like everyone else here.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:38 pmChenney, the FACIST PIG, has no shame! I home this facist pig end up as his WWII counterpart, Mussolini… his fat piggy body hanging upside down and the italian people cueing to spit on it!
January 14th, 2009 at 7:39 pmTim Vaculik = MORON
Shortened it for you, idiot.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:39 pmShayne,
You’re simply projecting and not doing a very good job of hiding it…
January 14th, 2009 at 7:39 pmTim Vacumm… go CHENNEY yourself!
January 14th, 2009 at 7:41 pmYes there was you ignorant tool. Clinton tried to take bin Laden out but but the Republicans in congress accused him of trying to distract the people from the oh so important impeachment. And when he left office he gave Bushco warnings as did the intelligence agencies. Why don’t you stick your head back up your ass where it’s been so firmly wedged these last 8 years. Condi is on MSNBC right no admitting she had a PDB saying bin Laden determined to attack inside the US. You are an idiot.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:41 pmOpps, still I think the point is clear despite the typos…
January 14th, 2009 at 7:42 pmWe are all socialists now, Comrade Tim.
And ushered in by conservatives.
Oh, Irony.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:42 pmYup. That’s what I do just like everyone else here
January 14th, 2009 at 7:42 pm—
So if that is the case, than how can you be to be different as in more correct in your thoughts and ideas? If you are the same than I suppose that would make you a witless wonder…
Shayne at #58,
O.K., I see you are REALLY clueless or simply enjoy making things up.
Enjoy your one-man circle jerk cuz I can’t help you…
January 14th, 2009 at 7:43 pmHey Tim, now that America is a socialist nation, when will you be moving?
January 14th, 2009 at 7:44 pmdbadass,
C’mon, I remember you being a little sharper and wittier, my friend! You can do better!
Well, the deal is I simply apply better REASONING on the facts that are available to everyone. I don’t start from a conclusion and work backwards!
January 14th, 2009 at 7:44 pmBush ignored warnings for 9 months but you’re the idiot who has been ignoring everything for the last 7 years. Your so stupid that if your whole family had been killed on 9/11 you thank Bush for letting your new family survive these last 7 years you ignoramus. How are you not embarrassed.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:45 pmI hate draft dodging cowards who think they have the authority and knowledge to make the decision who should die for their lies and corruption. Cheney and Bush and all the chickenhawks are miserable human beings. I say this because I served when I was called.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:45 pmbarfly,
Well, fortunately we’re not totally done in yet. Give it 4 to 8 years.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:45 pmhey what gives? 66 and 68 need to be inverted…
January 14th, 2009 at 7:46 pmTim Vacadik, if your mentors, Rush, Sean or Bill ever stopped suddenly, your head would go straight up any one of their asses.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:46 pmIf I’m not mistaken doesn’t this Tim dude also defend and get all excited about torture? Now he defends the criminal behaviors of the most evil man who ever acted as our pseudo president. And to really smack us down he calls those who post here Socialists. hahaha. And yes, I am a proud democratic socialist.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:46 pmIsn’t it really “Tiny Peni$” Tim? Such a big tough name attached to a very small brain.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:46 pmNo you don’t as you never link any idea to any “fact”. You just make it up as you go along…
January 14th, 2009 at 7:47 pmYou need to stop listening to Rush Tim. He gets paid $40 million a year to feed manure to the idiots of this country. And some of you are so stupid you come here and show the rest of us how dumb you are. And Rush laughs at you chumps all the way to the bank as does Rupert Murdoch. Only with your level of stupidity could this country have gotten in this sorry state.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:47 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Well, fortunately we’re not totally done in yet. Give it 4 to 8 years.
For the conservatives to finally take the baby-steps to communism?
Say goodby to your illusions of rugged individualism, comrade.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:47 pmSo anyway Tim. About the flaws of socialism?
January 14th, 2009 at 7:48 pmThe Internationale
Arise, ye workers from your slumber,
Arise, ye prisoners of want.
For reason in revolt now thunders,
and at last ends the age of cant!
Away with all your superstitions,
Servile masses, arise, arise!
We’ll change henceforth the old tradition,
And spurn the dust to win the prize!
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
Stand up, all victims of oppression,
For the tyrants fear your might!
Don’t cling so hard to your possessions,
For you have nothing if you have no rights!
Let racist ignorance be ended,
For respect makes the empires fall!
Freedom is merely privilege extended,
Unless enjoyed by one and all.
So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.
The Internationale,
Unites the world in song.
So comrades, come rally,
For this is the time and place!
The international ideal,
Unites the human race.
Arise, you prisoners of starvation!
Arise, you wretched of the earth!
For justice thunders condemnation:
A better world’s in birth!
No more tradition’s chains shall bind us,
Arise you slaves, no more in thrall!
The earth shall rise on new foundations:
We have been nought, we shall be all!
‘Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international soviet
Shall be the human race
‘Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international working class
Shall be the human race
Second stanza
No more deluded by reaction,
On tyrants only we’ll make war!
The soldiers too will take strike action,
They’ll break ranks and fight no more!
And if those cannibals keep trying,
To sacrifice us to their pride,
They soon shall hear the bullets flying,
We’ll shoot the generals on our own side.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
Let no one build walls to divide us,
Walls of hatred nor walls of stone.
Come greet the dawn and stand beside us,
We’ll live together or we’ll die alone.
In our world poisoned by exploitation,
Those who have taken, now they must give!
And end the vanity of nations,
We’ve but one Earth on which to live.
So come brothers and sisters,
For the struggle carries on.
The Internationale,
Unites the world in song.
So comrades, come rally,
For this is the time and place!
The international ideal,
Unites the human race.
We want no condescending saviors
To rule us from their judgment hall,
We workers ask not for their favors
Let us consult for all:
To make the thief disgorge his booty
To free the spirit from its cell,
We must ourselves decide our duty,
We must decide, and do it well.
‘Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international soviet
Shall be the human race
‘Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place.
The international working class
Shall be the human race
Third stanza
January 14th, 2009 at 7:49 pmNo saviour from on high delivers,
No faith have we in prince or peer.
Our own right hand the chains must shiver,
Chains of hatred, greed and fear.
E’er the thieves will out with their booty,
And to all give a happier lot.
Each at his forge must do their duty,
And we’ll strike the iron while it’s hot.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So comrades, come rally,
And the last fight let us face.
The Internationale,
Unites the human race.
So, conservatives introduce socialism to America - and Tim thinks they’ll do an about-face in 4-8 years?
It is to laugh.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:50 pmShayne, Shayne SHAYNE!
Are you listening? All right, here’s your chance to convince me that your reasoning makes any sense:
Please describe the nature of what you describe as “warnings” of “imminent attack”. Please try to describe the actionable intelligence that was ignored plus how it was ignored.
I’ll give you time to answer.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:50 pmHey Tim, if you’re so sure of your convictions then you should be willing to die with your heroes after their trials, right big man.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:50 pmShayne,
I never listen to Mr. Limbaugh’s show. What’s your point? Are you actually capable of making a coherent argument?
January 14th, 2009 at 7:51 pmTim seems to be a Rush Scatologist. Rush shits out, well, a bunch of shit and Tim eats it. Why don’t you try real truth and real facts for a change Tim. Trust me, you’ll at least save money from all that Listerine and toothpaste you have to buy.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:51 pmDid Saddam actually have any weapons that he did not buy from the US (CIA)?
We know that the weapons and chemical agents we sold him were used on the local population, much as the Israelis are doing on the Gazans.
Why are we not going for a regime change there?
January 14th, 2009 at 7:52 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Timmeh parading his vast ignorance once again to give us a free clown show. You are world class stupid Timmeh. Personally I was at peace rallie and I spoke at one of them. You are STUPID Timmeh. I think it is YOU who hates America. It is clear you hate Americans. Then again what can I expect from a low functioning moron like you. Your posts are studies in abject stupidity and that is the ONLY worth they have.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:53 pmI just got my hemp hat from the local pot shop, everthing is looking like the govys fault and i hate the prez elect…am I there yet?
January 14th, 2009 at 7:53 pmPlease try to describe the actionable intelligence that was ignored plus how it was ignored.
I’ll give you time to answer.
Actually it wasn’t ignored - Ashcroft stopped flying on commercial airlines, after the “Bin Laden determined to strike the US” PDB was released.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:53 pmMr. Evil,
I already stated I don’t listen to Rush, I rarely tune in to Mr. Hannity’s show and I can’t stand Bill O’Reilly.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:54 pmhave another brownie
January 14th, 2009 at 7:54 pmI would say “May god have mercy on his soul” except that there’s no way this evil man is going to get anywhere near heaven.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:54 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Protecting ourselves by invading a country that the CIA said DIRECTLY was no threat to attack us? That General Zinni TESTIFIED IN THE SENATE was no threat to US or to its nieghbors not a threat not a gathering threat not even close? WOW. You redefine the terms, stupid, coward, gullible and brainwashed. You are stupid beyond compare and what is really amazing is how PROUD you are of your stupidity. What is REALLY good is that in one more week the stupidest people on the Planet like YOU will not have a voice in the White House. The grownups are back in charge. You can resume cowering under your bed you cowardly punk
January 14th, 2009 at 7:56 pmbarfly,
I didn’t ask you, but I needn’t have bothered anyway. If you want to answer a question, then at least make a credible attempt!
January 14th, 2009 at 7:56 pmBaghdad would make a very fine place for Dick to retire. They could use his head as a bowling bowl, which is more use than I can think of.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:57 pmravenouswolf Says: He’s lost on the internet and can’t find his way out.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:57 pmTim Vaculik Says:
HA Timmeh. That was hilarious. YOU wouldnt know reasoning if it chomped your codsack
January 14th, 2009 at 7:57 pmHe lifted a manhole cover and slipped down the tubes…
January 14th, 2009 at 7:58 pmTim, have you tried praying?
January 14th, 2009 at 7:58 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Please describe the nature of what you describe as “warnings” of “imminent attack”. Please try to describe the actionable intelligence that was ignored plus how it was ignored.
I’ll give you time to answer.
You’re right, for Republicans like Bush, Rice, Cheney, intelligence isn’t “actionable” unless they are given the exact day, time and method that will be used to commit the act of terror. We all remember Rice saying “no one could know that they would fly planes into the WTC”. Nope, not even that PDB that said “OBL determined to strike in the US” and the other warnings about using airplanes as weapons.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:58 pmI didn’t ask you, but I needn’t have bothered anyway. If you want to answer a question, then at least make a credible attempt!
Please explain what was incredible about the fact that Ashcroft (at least)v so feared an airline attack, that he stopped flying commercially, shortly after the aforementioned Presidential Daily Briefing was given to the president.
Take your time, I’m in no hurry.
January 14th, 2009 at 7:59 pmdbadass,
Ah, the subject of socialism as the “answer” to man’s condition is a subject I can really sink my teeth into.
Trouble is, we have to set the parameters of the debate to know that we are talking about the same thing. There are any number of topics to discuss in this regard. We could talk about the creeping socialism and where we stand today. We could debate the merits philosophically. We could examine the economic prosperity of socialist paradises like Cuba. On and on, you get the picture.
Pick a topic if you like.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:00 pmWe could examine the economic prosperity of socialist paradises like Sweden. On and on, you get the picture.
Fixed it for you. Free of charge.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:02 pmYes, I would vote for Bernie Sanders, the only socialist in the Congress…and a damn good representative he is.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:03 pmWell let’s see……..where to begin? Upon entering the white house in January 2001 - the bush cabal had been repeatedly warned that terrorism would be their biggest concern. They pooh-poohed all the experts - and cut the anti-terrorism budget. And then when “the lights were blinking red” in Summer 2001, they chose to ignore it. They chose to ignore the various FBI agents who were warning that there are guys taking flight lessons without any desire to learn how to take off or land. Hmmmmmmmm….. And then the famous August 6, 2001 PDB titled “Bin Laden to Attack”…(sorry don’t have the exact quote.) And then Bush remarkably tells the agent giving him this info - while cutting brush on his ranch no less - “Okay, you covered your ass.”
So Tim, dispute any or all of what I have just stated.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:03 pmbarfly,
Well, you have a legitimate question, but it still doesn’t get to what I’m asking.
Be careful not to use hindsight to second guess what we knew AFTER the attacks vs. what we knew before.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:03 pmcheney,boner and the likes are absolutely reprehensible - in bush’s farewell tour there is one noticeable talking point belted out by right wing intolerants - he’s kept the homeland safe for 7 yrs - man am i sick of these despicable idiots flogging that dead horse - and tim,are you saying that you agree with this guy? - i’m guessing that you haven’t served in,or have had friends or family that have lost their lives in iraq.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:05 pmbarfly,
You forgot to post the GDP of Sweden and give us a picture of the freedoms they enjoy. I think you also forgot to mention their level of taxation.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:06 pmIt’s bad enough you’re so dumb but to be willfully ignorant is pathetic Tim. There is testimony on 9/11 all over YouTube if you wanted to learn anything but you don’t. It would upset your little bubble of cluelessness.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:08 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Well, you have a legitimate question, but it still doesn’t get to what I’m asking.
Yes it does. Ashcroft could have raised the alarm, but all he did was stop using commercial airlines. He was a member of the administration at the time. That guts your assertion.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:08 pm4,500 dead is a small price to pay for a second term. You can’t re-elect a war president without a war.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:09 pmDo the Swedes spy on their own citizens? Can the Swedish hold citizens indefinitely with no charges and no due process? Does Sweden use torture?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:09 pmYou forgot to post the GDP of Sweden and give us a picture of the freedoms they enjoy. I think you also forgot to mention their level of taxation.
Free education.
Free medical.
A higher standard of living than ours.
Questions?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:09 pmgreen,
Again! You people need to GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.
The information you say was ignored by the Administration NEVER got to them. In fact, this information never made it to the FBI in Washington.
Please try to at least use known facts in your arguments.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:09 pmbarfly,
Oh, come on! That’s no argument. The fact that he was concerned about the potential use of commercial airliners in an attack doesn’t prove anything! We already knew about operation Bojinka at that time, but we were not aware of any plot within our own borders!
You really are over-reaching with the Ashcroft thing.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:11 pmTim - The Bushies are already perfectly capable of excuse-making (in fact, it’s all their only competency) - why do you think you need to help them?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:11 pmbarfly,
NOTHING is free; you should know that by this point in your life.
All that “free” stuff you cited is paid for with high taxation, my friend.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:13 pmDidn’t some government officials quit, scant months before 9/11 because they were disgusted at the lazy attitude of the Bushies regarding the threat of terrorism? One died in the World Trade Center, if memory serves.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:13 pmShayne,
You ran as fast as you could didn’t ya?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:14 pmHow come you always pick Cuba and never Norway let’s say or plenty of other very happy healthy and prosperous nations with varying degrees of socialized policies?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:14 pmTim:
January 14th, 2009 at 8:15 pmI am a freegan. Many things are free. Other things can be obtained by simple bartering interactions. Still I don’t mind paying taxes for other stuff that I need and enjoy.
It is pretty clear the Bush administration was deep into Operation Ignore terrorism. The CIA was giving the administration what they described as hair on fire warnings, Bush went on the longest vacation since Nixon after only being president for seven months. They had a terrorism task force photo op then the task force NEVER MET. Bush answered the guy who gave him the Ben Laden determined to strike in US PDB by telling him ok you have covered your ass then spent the rest of the day fishing. They did NOTHING. They didnt have high level briefings they didnt tell the FBI and CIA to look for any suspicious behaviors that might tell them anything, they just DIDNT CARE.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:16 pmWhy not move to Iraq if you are so enthralled with Free Market economies. Cheney claims its a hugely successful venture.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:16 pmTim, Condi is on YouTube at the hearing saying that yes she did received those warnings. You saying it doesn’t exist won’t make it go away you propaganda monkey. You are a traitor to this nation and should pay the price for treason.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:16 pmRun from you Tim, I don’t think so.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:16 pmOkay Tim - what about the August 6 PDB - “Bin Laden Determined to Attack America” - refute it, rewrite history and say it never happened and the bush cabal worked real hard to protect the American people. Do it, I dare you.
By the way, I’m one of those people who believes 9/11 was an inside job. I just can’t quite figure out who was pulling the strings - but my assumption is that the Dick was very much involved.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:17 pmAll that “free” stuff you cited is paid for with high taxation, my friend.
The conservative boogeyman.
It’s a fair trade-off. When was the last time youheard of a Swedish bridge collapse, or an environmental catastrophe like the one that just occured, which saw the release of millions of tons of toxic coal ash? I think the Swedes are building solar infrastructure, with government money. Taxes, smaxes.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:17 pmshaun,
The very premise of the question posed to our Vice President was flawed and was intended to trap him.
Military service or having a friend or family member killed or injured in Afghanistan or Iraq is simply not a yardstick with which to measure anything.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:17 pmTim - got anything besides excuses?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:18 pmshaun,
Furhter, The Dick Cheney I admire didn’t respond like I would have expected. Namely like I did in my last post.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:18 pmThe money you make Tim and you’re talking about having to pay taxes. What a joke. Your type lives on the dole like the majority of red staters who are you kidding. Worrying about paying taxes. Hilarious.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:18 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Shayne,
You ran as fast as you could didn’t ya?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Says the ignorant cowardly troll without a shred of decency. WOW. If irony or stupidity were painful you would be on a morphene drip
January 14th, 2009 at 8:19 pmMilitary service or having a friend or family member killed or injured in Afghanistan or Iraq is simply not a yardstick with which to measure anything.
—
January 14th, 2009 at 8:19 pmIE Mr Obama as commander in chief…
green,
Well, so what? Saddam Hussein was determined to get to us somehow as well.
Just because some terrorist in a cave means us harm doesn’t mean they are capable and are ready to do so, right?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:20 pmTim Vaculik Says:
shaun,
The very premise of the question posed to our Vice President was flawed and was intended to trap him.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You are, as usual, exactly WRONG. If it isnt important enough that YOUR son or YOUR brother should die for it then it isnt important enough to sacrifice someone ELSES son or brother or HUSBAND.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:21 pmTim says,
“Military service or having a friend or family member killed or injured in Afghanistan or Iraq is simply not a yardstick with which to measure anything.”
That is a blind assertion and I would argue that it is exactly the correct yardstick to measure against Cheney’s also blind assertion.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:21 pmWell Tim, you’re sure getting a lot of attention tonight. You could’ve fooled me on the Rush thing. So why do you feel its OK to kill anyone that isn’t American? For whatever contrived reason? Don’t you want a better world? Is war just a ballgame to you? Are you a neocon cheerleader? Do you suck your thumb and wear a dress?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:21 pmDoes anyone remember the fool that posted the comparison data on quality of life issues but failed to realize they were ready the graphic upside down. Damn that was funny…
January 14th, 2009 at 8:22 pmWho was that?
barfly,
Well, looking at Sweden isn’t really a good comparison. We have to look at what socialism would do to OUR country. We live hre, after all.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:23 pmMr. Evil,
When did you stop beating your wife/children/dog?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:23 pmTim Vaculik Says:
green,
Well, so what? Saddam Hussein was determined to get to us somehow as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Really? Got any evidence this is true? I mean in the 02 NIE the CIA said DIRECTLY that Iraq was NO threat to attack us or commit terrorism against us. I guess what with your vast resources in intelligence you know BETTER than our intelligence service. Nah you pulled that directly out of your lower torso. You repeat it because A ya got nothin REAL to say and B you desperatly hope if you repeat it often enough it will magically become true.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:24 pmDon’t you get tired of moving those goal post all over the place Tim? And at the end of it you’re dumber than when you started. It would be sad if you weren’t so proud of your ignorance.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:24 pm“Well, so what? Saddam Hussein was determined to get to us somehow as well.”
Ah see #57. You know the one about sans supporting evidences…
January 14th, 2009 at 8:24 pmdbadass Says:
I remember that it was HILARIOUS. I dont remember what brainwashed troll it was though
January 14th, 2009 at 8:25 pm“Well, looking at Sweden isn’t really a good comparison. We have to look at what socialism would do to OUR country. We live hre, after all.”
Now there is a fine idea. Would you like to start as afterall it was your idea?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:25 pmWe already have Socialism, just corporate socialism. We all pay taxes to give Corporations incentives, infrastructure, and cheap labor.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:25 pmSo it’s nothing but excuses. Good job, Tim.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:27 pmThere still is no doubt that Dick Cheney is a liar, a five deferment chickenshit, willing to kill thousands in order to raid the treasury for himself, his friends and political allies.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:28 pmShayne,
I’m not worried about paying taxes, just saddened and angry that people think the government is the solution to all our ills and that we need MORE government programs and thence more taxes!
January 14th, 2009 at 8:28 pmTim Vaculik Says:
There was NO actionable intelligence developed prior to the attack!
________
God DDDDAmn, you’re one determined, STUPID son of a Botch.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/ articles/ A22231-2004Mar24.html
Ex-Aide Recounts Terror Warnings
Clarke Says Bush Didn’t Consider Al Qaeda Threat a Priority Before 9/11
By Dan Eggen and Walter Pincus
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, March 25, 2004; Page A01
President Bush’s top counterterrorism adviser warned seven days before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorism attacks that hundreds of people could die in a strike by the al Qaeda network and that the administration was not doing enough to combat the threat, the commission investigating the attacks disclosed yesterday.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:28 pmR.O.S.,
So Clarke passed on the actual plans and people’s names that were about to fly the planes, right?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:30 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Never have Tim, old boy.
Once again you procede from false perception.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:30 pmWe have to look at what socialism would do to OUR country.
We are already socialists, comrade. You have your tenses confused.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:31 pmdbadass,
Sure, but what area or issue would you like to hear me expound upon?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:31 pmTim, you really love being one of the dumbest, dumbed down people on the face of the Earth, don’t you?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:31 pmI think Tim must be William Kristol’s intern.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:31 pm“expound” doesn’t mean “make excuses for”, Tim - check your dictionary.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:32 pmDo Bush and Cheney and Rice et al need the name of the turd in order to wipe their own asses?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:32 pmbarfly,
Oh yeah, I forgot! When do we get our ticket to the re-education camps?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:32 pmSo Clarke passed on the actual plans and people’s names that were about to fly the planes, right?
Doesn’t matter.
They could have risked some political capital with airline passengers by announcing travel restrictions. But that might upset some campaign contributors, so they gambled - and we lost.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:34 pmTim, can you wipe your own ass?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:34 pmTim Vaculik Says:
R.O.S.,
So Clarke passed on the actual plans and people’s names that were about to fly the planes, right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My GOD you are stupid. Are you really making the argument that either Bush got the names addresses, phone numbers, ages, and flight numbers of terrorists or there was NOTHING he could do? REALLY? Are you ever embarassed at the abject stupidity of your mindnumbing posts? Do you even KNOW what a cogent argument is or is repeating whatever screechmonkey does your thinking for you the only thing you are capable of?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:34 pmHow about this part and please spar me the pretend confusion.
“We have to look at what socialism would do to OUR country.”
Tell me what it would do and try not to just say some simple shit about increased taxation.
Thanks
January 14th, 2009 at 8:34 pmMr. Evil,
You are long on (attempted) insults, but woefully SHORT on insightful commentary.
Try a little harder, you can do it! YES… YOU… CAN… heh, heh
January 14th, 2009 at 8:34 pmMy football coach used to tell us that excuse-makers were pussies. I didn’t realize then he was talking about conservatives.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:35 pmBTW Tim, in reference to my reply @ #155, I don’t enjoy or need to use gratuitous violence to get cooperation within my family. And my dogs shit and piss outside. I’m done with you, you incredibly dumb motherfu(ker.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:35 pm164 - No, but he can give you a laundry list of reasons why it’s not wiped.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:36 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Oh yeah, I forgot! When do we get our ticket to the re-education camps?
That’s communism, comrade, not socialism.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:36 pmRE-education? When are you going to get your first education?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:36 pmre education implies prior education
January 14th, 2009 at 8:36 pmsocialism is the salvation of humanity
(wow, that felt good!)
January 14th, 2009 at 8:37 pmTim prefers the de-education available through am radio and fox news.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:38 pmChebornik!
You will come to love the taste of borcht, and we will drink vodka, and piss in the street, like old comrades!
January 14th, 2009 at 8:40 pmTim Vaculik Says:
R.O.S.,
So Clarke passed on the actual plans and people’s names that were about to fly the planes, right?
________
F you, you snotty, empty pathetic little wanker.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke
Richard Alan Clarke[1] (born October 1951) was a U.S. government employee for 30 years, 1973 - 2003. He worked for the State Department during the presidency of Ronald Reagan.[2] Following the presidency of George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton promoted Clarke to be the chief counter-terrorism adviser on the U.S. National Security Council. Under President George W. Bush Clarke no longer had cabinet-level access, but continued in the same position until his retirement in January 2003, serving as a member of the Senior Executive Service, specializing in intelligence, cyber security and counter-terrorism.[citation needed] He was thus a part of the executive branch at the time of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.
Clarke came to widespread public attention for his role as counter-terrorism czar in the Clinton and Bush Administrations in March 2004, when he appeared on the 60 Minutes television news magazine, released his memoir about his service in government, Against All Enemies, and testified before the 9/11 Commission. In all three instances, Clarke was sharply critical of the Bush Administration’s attitude toward counter-terrorism before the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the decision to go to war with Iraq.
I I have a choice between taking what Clarke says seriously, or Timmeh…
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA… yer a joke, *sshole.
I feel safe here in presentling Timmeh as Exhibit B for my “Raging Chubby” torture hypothesis. Smile, dickweek… yer on camera.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:40 pmTim reminds me of Sarah Palin, he uses a couple of phrases to cover up for the fact that he has no actual knowledge of history or current events. I bet he just loved her campaign and cheered from the front row at every chance. Didn’t even realize she only had one speech.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:43 pmEverybody has a right to be ignorant Timmy but you are abusing the privilege.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:45 pmbarfly Says:
We are already socialists, comrade. You have your tenses confused.
____________
Apparently Timmeh is unaware of how fire departments, the police, the libraries, and courts operate.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for THE COMMON DEFENSE, promote the GENERAL WELFARE…
January 14th, 2009 at 8:46 pmdbadass,
Well, O.K., since you asked. Socialism takes many forms. One of the most insidious is the notion that we need the government or government sponsored groups to protect us from every type of potential harm that may befall humans engaged in normal, everyday activities!
I am a free man! I am willing to ACCEPT the risks of the activities I freely choose to engage in! I don’t need the “nanny state” advising me that my activites MIGHT BE HAZARDOUS to my well-being! OMG, talking on a cell phone while driving is potentially hazardous! I don’t need or want a government funding advocacy group telling me in ads over the radio that they think I SHOULD NOT talk while driving. Where the H_ELL do they get off?
This is just one example of the ridiculous notions by the do-gooder socialists that irritates the h_ell outta me!
January 14th, 2009 at 8:48 pmMay God have mercy on the soul of this MURDEROUS TRAITOR Cheney.
And TRAITOR Bush as well.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:49 pmR.O.S,
Well, you last post certainly lives up to your moniker.
To equate government institutions like fire departmentswith socialism take REAL ignorance.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:50 pmShayne,
Still waiting for that answer, bub.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:50 pmNow that we are all part of the soviet, it will take time for some to become used to the fatherly kindness of the State. Re-education will be gradual, with a cabbage-and-stick approach, to lure them into a deeper commitment to the goals of our most-capable leader, and his glorious cadre - er, cabinet.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:50 pmHaving a beer while on that phone is also dangerous. Damn that creeping socialism. Seriously Tim is that what you are going to offer up as to the great risks the nation faces from socialism. Public Service Announcement?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:51 pmPSA’s are threatening the very fabric of society. Next thing those do gooders will be telling me who I can and can not marry. It is a slippery slope, I tell ya…
January 14th, 2009 at 8:52 pmdbadass,
No, I just had to get that off my chest up front. The issue is a legitimate concern however. There are a lot more serious examples in that vein.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:52 pmAnswer to what Tim?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:53 pmTim Vaculik Says:
R.O.S,
Well, you last post certainly lives up to your moniker.
To equate government institutions like fire departmentswith socialism take REAL ignorance.
__________
Actually, Timmeh, I’m here for folks like you… so you know you always have a home, no matter how many decent folks you annoy and alienate, or how badly you screw up every last single, solitary thing you touch… heh…
Okay, Tough guy… explain why fire departments AREN’T socialism in action.
Please. And don’t try to pass off some sneering, condescending crapola as a thought out response.
EXPLAIN IT, fool, or STFU.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:53 pmdbadass,
Actually, I was referring to the congressionally chartered National Safety Council. These people are consummate meddlers and are advocating that the use of cell phones while drivein be banned NATION-WIDE.
Jesus! What’s next?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:54 pm“There are a lot more serious examples in that vein”
If they are so darned serious, I suppose you will want to share them.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:55 pmI think we should all ENCOURAGE Timmeh to talk on his cell phone while driving, dbadass… and drink… and whack off like a machine gun…
C’mon Timmeh… you kin do it… yer a “rugged He-man”, and “individualist”…
But whatever ya do, Timmeh… don’t call the Fired Dept next time yer hair catches fire. They’re filthy F-in’ SOCIALISTS!!!!
January 14th, 2009 at 8:56 pmJesus! What’s next?
—
Less dead people?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:56 pmR.O.S.,
“Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods…”
At least try to start with accepted definitions, if you could. You see, I don’t have to “prove” anything. I am simply stating the obvious - that you have ignorantly equated fire departments with socialism. Are you serious?
January 14th, 2009 at 8:58 pmhoodathunk, #8: you got it in one. #9–even better! cristalviews #11–exactly!Maplestreet, superb.
The US now sports its very own Axis of Evil: BushCo.
StratRat #36: but you see, my friend, it’s not Cheney’s blood or Cheney’s relatives–so of course it’s “worth it”! There IS no “true reason” for invading Iraq, so he’ll invent one.
Tim Vaculik Says:
Well, the deal is I simply apply better REASONING on the facts that are available to everyone. I don’t start from a conclusion and work backwards!
Naughty, naughty, Tim. Didn’t your mother teach you not to lie? If you HAD examined the “facts that are available to everyone” with the SLIGHTEST bit of reasoning, you could not make such a statement, at least not with a straight face.
January 14th, 2009 at 8:58 pm“Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods…”
—
January 14th, 2009 at 9:01 pmand the problem is?
They’re filthy F-in’ SOCIALISTS!!!!
Now we venture into the meaning of what we’re discussing.
To say that America is socialist is incorrect. America is socialistic, meaning we don’t adhere to the strict definition of socialism. The “tic” means “like, or similar, but not identical to.”
January 14th, 2009 at 9:01 pmR.O.S,
Maybe you think fire departments fall under the theory of “socialist interventionism” perhaps. heh, heh
January 14th, 2009 at 9:01 pmActually, it’s just the “ic,” but I digress.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:02 pmdbadass,
The classic definition I reproduced above is antithetical to the principles embodied not only in our Constitution, but our very history, heritage, and culture.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:03 pmSo then it shouldn’t be hard to tell us all that bad stuff that would happen other than the cell phone tragedy
January 14th, 2009 at 9:04 pmWhen Cheney the MURDEROUS TRAITOR finally DROPS DEAD and goes to be with his MASTER Satan, and Ronnie Reagan,
THAT will be “WORTH IT”!!!
January 14th, 2009 at 9:06 pmWEll, I’ve taken this about as far off-topic as I care to for the moment. I’ve just enjoyed a Kona Pipeline Porter and I don’t want to waste the buzz on a bunch of losers like you… JUST KIDDING!
Have fun and I mean that sincerely.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:06 pmThe classic definition I reproduced above is antithetical to the principles embodied not only in our Constitution, but our very history, heritage, and culture.
C’mon Tim.
We both know you left a part out of the definition.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:07 pmSo is it safe to assume that the only thing that will happen to the US with your imagined socialism takeover, is that we won’t be able to talk on the phone when we should be driving? Wow how very alarming…
January 14th, 2009 at 9:07 pmTim Vaculik Says:
Military service or having a friend or family member killed or injured in Afghanistan or Iraq is simply not a yardstick with which to measure anything.
Let me see if I get this right: so long as YOU have not been personally been injured, bereaved, or inconvenienced in ANY way, then it’s all right to forget 100,000+ deaths, our loss of respect worldwide, the criminals of BushCo, the stomping of our Constitution–they’re irrelevant. Did I get it right?
January 14th, 2009 at 9:11 pmThe radio ads annoy Tim while he’s trying to talk on the cell phone.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:12 pmThe Cheney-Stakes begins next week.
Which will get Dick first: ticker, or tribunal?
I’m betting ticker, brought on by stress of worrying about possible trial. When does his secret service protection lapse, anyway?
January 14th, 2009 at 9:17 pmHere Tim, let me help you out. When something comes on the radio you don’t like, all you have to do is push the big button on the left.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:18 pmTim Vaculik Says:
“Please describe the nature of what you describe as “warnings” of “imminent attack”.”
I think it might have been a little thing that the shrub might have slept through, he was on vacation, called the PRESIDENTIAL DAILY BRIEF AUGUST 6th TITLED:
BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE IN US!
Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate Bin Ladensince 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the U.S. Bin Laden implied in U.S. television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and “bring the fighting to America.” :
After U.S. missile strikes on his base in Afghanistan in 1998, Bin Laden told followers he wanted to retaliate in Washington, according to a [deleted text] service.
An Egyptian Islamic Jihad (EIJ) operative told [deleted text] serviceat the same time that Bin Laden was planning to exploit the operative’saccess to the U.S. to mount a terrorist strike.
The millennium plotting in Canada in 1999 may have been part of Bin Laden’s first serious attempt to implement a terrorist strike in the U.S. Convicted plotter Ahmed Ressam has told the FBI that he conceived the idea to attack Los Angeles International Airport himself, but that BinLaden lieutenant Abu Zubaydah encouraged him and helped facilitate theoperation. Ressam also said that in 1998 Abu Zubaydah was planning hisown U.S. attack.
Ressam says Bin Laden was aware of the Los Angeles operation.
Although Bin Laden has not succeeded, his attacks against the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 demonstrate that he preparesoperations years in advance and is not deterred by setbacks. Bin Laden associates surveilled our Embassies in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam as early as 1993, and some members of the Nairobi cell planning the bombings were arrested and deported in 1997.
AI Qaeda members — including same who are U.S. citizens — have resided in and traveled to the U.S. for years, and the group apparently maintains asupport structure that could aid attacks.
Two Al Qaeda members found guilty in the conspiracy to bomb our embassies in East Africa were U.S. citizens, and a senior EIJ member lived in California in the mid-1990s.
A clandestine sourcesaid in 1998 that a Bin Laden cell in New York was recruiting Muslim-American youth for attacks.
We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a [deleted text] service in 1998 saying that Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft to gain the release of “Blind Shaykh” ‘Umar’ Abd aI-Rahman and other U.S.-held extremists.
Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance offederal buildings in New York.
The FBI is conducting approximately 70 investigations throughout the U.S. that it considers Bin Laden-related. CIA and the FBI are investigating a call to our embassy in the UAE in May saying that a group or Bin Laden supporters was in the U.S. planning attacks with explosives.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:21 pmAnd in the end, o’l Tim even had an excuse for bailing out on his proud and incorruptible litany of excuses.
Bravo, Mr. Perino.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:27 pmTim Vaculik Says:
——————————————————————————–
green,
Well, so what? Saddam Hussein was determined to get to us somehow as well.
Just because some terrorist in a cave means us harm doesn’t mean they are capable and are ready to do so, right?
Saddam Hussein was neutered a long, long time ago. And to spout such obvious untruths is just plain idiotic. Try again.
And on another subject, being a Dane - and knowing that the happiest people on the planet are the Danes - screw you and your simplistic and irrelevant attempts to denigrate Scandinavia. They are doing what is right for themselves and their fellow humans and other beings. Why? Simply because it is the right (not reich) thing to do.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:39 pmTim Vaculik Says:
“Be careful not to use hindsight to second guess what we knew AFTER the attacks vs. what we knew before.”
PDB August 6th, 2001 - what we knew before
Tim is an expert at circular logic.
“We (the R’s and C’s) are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right.” - George Orwell
January 14th, 2009 at 9:39 pmShoot, I took a long winded phone call when little Timmy was getting himself all worked up. When I returned, well, the rest is history.
My question: Where do these people get their information? Is stupidity rewarded in the neocon scheme? Why don’t they care about the truth? And most importantly, where is Joe when I need a good laugh?
January 14th, 2009 at 9:49 pmHey Tim. Since you are so good at reasoning, perhaps you can figure out that the reason laws are enacted to prevent talking on phones while driving is that it is dangerous to OTHERS that are on the road. Should we change the laws so that you can be as drunk and stupid as you want while driving as well?
January 14th, 2009 at 9:49 pmWhat green said. Especailly that stuff about happy people…
January 14th, 2009 at 9:49 pmCheney had the opportunity to put his life on the line in Viet Nam to fight for a cause he believed in. All he did was show what a coward he really is.
January 14th, 2009 at 9:58 pmgreen Says: “Is stupidity rewarded in the neocon scheme?”
The short answer is yes.
January 14th, 2009 at 10:00 pmBy acting stupid, they believe they can get others to follow along, being stupid.
All the while believing they are not as stupid as their stupid followers.
The reality is that dumbing down is a contagion, and they have to continually act even more stupid as their affliction progresses.
dbadass Says:
——————————————————————————–
What green said. Especailly that stuff about happy people…
Sometimes we just have to laugh………otherwise our tears would never stop.
January 14th, 2009 at 10:02 pmNevar Says:
——————————————————————————–
green Says: “Is stupidity rewarded in the neocon scheme?”
The short answer is yes.
By acting stupid, they believe they can get others to follow along, being stupid.
All the while believing they are not as stupid as their stupid followers.
The reality is that dumbing down is a contagion, and they have to continually act even more stupid as their affliction progresses.
I believe you are correct. What a sad state of affairs. Being a child of the 60’s, I recall an incredible educational system where we were taught to think for ourselves, gather information from a variety of sources and develop well thought out conclusions. I cannot forget being in a history class that had no money for text books, we had to do our own research and take massive class notes. That was in high school.
Still, where is the comical Joe Cantwell when we need him? Paging Joe, paging Zooey……..
January 14th, 2009 at 10:12 pmQ: But Mr. Vice President, getting from there to here, 4,500 Americans have died, at least 100,000 Iraqis have died. Has it been worth that?
CHENEY: I think so.
Q: Why?
CHENEY: Because I believed at the time what Saddam Hussein represented was, especially in the aftermath of 9/11, was a terror-sponsoring state [blah-blah-blah….]
“… and leave aside the fact that I took five student deferments from defending the world from the Evils of Communism….”
Cheers,
January 14th, 2009 at 10:13 pmgreen Says:
——————————————————————————–
dbadass Says:
——————————————————————————–
What green said. Especailly that stuff about happy people…
Sometimes we just have to laugh………otherwise our tears would never stop.
Joni Mitchell: “Crying and laughing, it’s the same release.”
January 14th, 2009 at 10:17 pmCheney is a dipshit, like Bush is a retard and Rush is a lardass.
January 14th, 2009 at 10:19 pmTim Vaculik Says:
You folks are engaging in collective amnesia or simply ignore facts that stare you in the face. Where were you folks in the days immediately following 9/11? Where were you folks in the period between 9/11 and the start of the Iraq conflict?
Iraq was not connected to 9/11.
.
Tim Vaculik Says:
The information you say was ignored by the Administration NEVER got to them.
Tim Vaculik Says:
Well, so what? Saddam Hussein was determined to get to us somehow as well.
Here’s the report. There’s more to it than just the title.
We had control over Saddam’s situation. A nation is not a terrorist network. The former can be blockaded; the latter cannot.
.
Tim Vaculik Says:
So Clarke passed on the actual plans and people’s names that were about to fly the planes, right?
Do you really believe that the government could have done nothing without having everything handed to them on a silver platter? I would think that at least increasing the priority of terrorism investigations, working to establish international police partnerships, and… I don’t know, maybe cutting the President’s endless vacation short, might have helped as well. That’s just off the top of my head and I ain’t even an anti-terrorism expert.
.
Tim Vaculik Says:
I am a free man! I am willing to ACCEPT the risks of the activities I freely choose to engage in! …
Are you an Anarchist?
.
Tim Vaculik Says:
Maybe you think fire departments fall under the theory of “socialist interventionism” perhaps. heh, heh
Well yes, it’s a service owned and administrated by the state.
.
Tim Vaculik Says:
Military service or having a friend or family member killed or injured in Afghanistan or Iraq is simply not a yardstick with which to measure anything.
If they were killed or injured in a war which had no merit to begin with, and if the administration is unwilling to end the war that they shouldn’t have started because they want to delay admitting that they shouldn’t have started it, then yes, it is. It’s a yardstick to measure the callous disregard for human life displayed by any politician who would put “saving face” above the lives of those who serve. How many lives are Bush and Cheney’s egos worth?
January 14th, 2009 at 10:19 pmTim Vaculik Says:
“I am a free man! I am willing to ACCEPT the risks of the activities I freely choose to engage in! …”
ElBruce Says: “Are you an Anarchist?”
At least, if not an outright sociopath.
January 14th, 2009 at 10:25 pmElBruce Says:
——————————————————————————–
Tim Vaculik Says:
Military service or having a friend or family member killed or injured in Afghanistan or Iraq is simply not a yardstick with which to measure anything.
If they were killed or injured in a war which had no merit to begin with, and if the administration is unwilling to end the war that they shouldn’t have started because they want to delay admitting that they shouldn’t have started it, then yes, it is. It’s a yardstick to measure the callous disregard for human life displayed by any politician who would put “saving face” above the lives of those who serve. How many lives are Bush and Cheney’s egos worth?
Bingo! This is exactly the place where so many fear to tread. This “war”/occupation was illegal and unwarranted from the get go. So consequently anything that comes from it is tarnished. I feel bad for those who were lied to and forced to serve and lied to again. I don’t blame the soldiers, I blame the warmongers and profiteers.
January 14th, 2009 at 10:30 pmgreen Says:
This “war”/occupation was illegal and unwarranted from the get go. So consequently anything that comes from it is tarnished. I feel bad for those who were lied to and forced to serve and lied to again.
It’s the essence of the wingnut argument that withdrawing without “victory” would demoralize our troops. The fact is, that they’re going to be demoralized for the rest of their lives no matter how or when we withdraw. That’s because there was no good reason to send them to kill and die in the first place, and eventually each of them is going to have to deal with that in their own way.
But the thing is, even if we fought on for 100 years (hi, McCain!) we still wouldn’t be able to create a reason to have gone there in the first place. Not that the wingnuts haven’t tried - their “the world is better without Saddam” or “Democracy will flourish” arguments can never be more than after-the-fact justifications, because they were not the reasons given before going in.
You’d need a time machine to do that, and even then it’s extremely doubtful if the reasons they give now could have convinced Congress, the public and our allies to go forward with it back then. Could you imagine Bush asking the nation for authorization for war, based on the justifications they’re giving for it these days? He would have been laughed out of the Presidency.
So maintaining the war in Iraq can only be nothing more than a holding maneuver, no matter how you play it. This isn’t terribly difficult logic; somebody at some level should have realized that. But they still continued to send more people to kill and die for the cause of this administration’s lies, for five more years and counting.
January 14th, 2009 at 10:45 pmElBruce Says:
You nailed it………what a mess and still there are people attempting to defend it. There are so many people who can never admit they were wrong…….and admitting one’s wrongs is the first step in healing.
Me? I marched against this insanity from day one…..but what do I know?
January 14th, 2009 at 10:53 pmCheney On Whether 4,500 American soldiers should be fed through a meat grinder on a whim: ‘I Think So’»
January 14th, 2009 at 10:58 pmEat shit and die, Cheney.
Seriously.
January 14th, 2009 at 11:02 pmQ: But Mr. Vice President, getting from there to here, 4,500 Americans have died, at least 100,000 Iraqis have died. Has it been worth that?
CHENEY: I think so.
Look, the guy was just being completely and brutally honest here: It WAS worth it — to him and Halliburton. Many, many times over.
January 14th, 2009 at 11:07 pmAfter reading Terry Brook’s series of books about demons, I am convinced Dick Cheney is a demon. He has probably been alive for centuries, and his goal is nothing less than the destruction of mankind.
January 14th, 2009 at 11:11 pmIt’s just a shame that we can’t include Chaney’s name to the list of the 4500.
January 14th, 2009 at 11:17 pmI lived in Iraq for a couple of years doing community development work for an NGO, and I was shocked when I heard what Iraqis had to say. Many of them were definitely unhappy and angry with how the US had treated them (although some were quite supportive), but only a very few of the Sunnis actually said they’d have been happier if Saddam was still around. I was very much against the War, and still am upset at how it was handled, but part of me wants to agree with Cheney to some extent.
January 14th, 2009 at 11:18 pmCareful! Demons are very insidious and clever. They work by taking something honorable in you and causing you to use it in a bad way. Then you are compromised, and you don’t even realize it. It’s all downhill from there.
January 14th, 2009 at 11:31 pmLehrer just bent over for the old lying sack of shit!
It became kinda sick how you knew he wouldn’t accept responsibility for anything, as the show wore on…
January 14th, 2009 at 11:42 pmCheney is just reassuring the point that Republican Rule of the USA is simply not viable. We have paid an incredible price for their failed delusions.
January 14th, 2009 at 11:52 pmDammit.
If only there was an iPhone application like this one.
January 15th, 2009 at 12:02 amPhil A Says:
Many of them were definitely unhappy and angry with how the US had treated them (although some were quite supportive), but only a very few of the Sunnis actually said they’d have been happier if Saddam was still around.
Did you get a chance to ask any of the dead?
January 15th, 2009 at 12:02 amWell, maybe Dick Cheney thinks losing 4500 American soldiers, millions of Iraqis dead and displaced, $1 Trillion dollars wasted on a bogus military action, and our international reputation was worth it. How else was he going to make all of those Halliburton options pay off?
He’s a world-class war-mongering, war profiteer. He deserves the time to explain himself at The Hague.
January 15th, 2009 at 12:10 amI wonder how much Dick Cheney’s personal wealth has increased these past 8 years? I’m betting his portfolio is bullet-proof.
January 15th, 2009 at 12:12 amElBruce Says:
Did you get a chance to ask any of the dead?
Don’t forget the hundreds of thousands that Saddam killed. Listen, I agree, the handling of the post invasion security was really bad, but at the same time no one (except perhaps Tikritis) reminisce about the “good old days”.
January 15th, 2009 at 12:13 amElBruce Says:
Don’t forget the hundreds of thousands that Saddam killed. Listen, I agree, the handling of the post invasion security was really bad, but at the same time no one (except perhaps Tikritis) reminisce about the “good old days”.
Oh sure, I don’t disagree with you. Unless things get messed up again, a century from now folks in Iraq will be way better off. But that doesn’t mean we should have done it.
I hear things are pretty bad in Myanmar, Tibet, and a host of countries in Africa. Should we invade all of those too? In fact, if “overthrowing tyranny” was the real reason for invasion, I’d put Iraq about 4th or 5th on the list of countries that could use it.
You know, I know this sounds callous, but if the Axis had taken over the entire world in WWII, after a few centuries things would probably have eventually ended up OK for the people of that alternate future. And those people would probably look back on the (now nonexistent) Jews much a pretty similar way to how Americans look back on the genocide of Native Americans in their own country - “wow, that was too bad but there’s nothing I can do about it now; at least we got world peace out of the deal.”
Long-term outcomes just can’t justify unwarranted aggression.
January 15th, 2009 at 12:49 amTim, for all of you self-made men out there:
January 15th, 2009 at 12:55 amWouldn’t concern for the Iraqis better translate into lifting the sanctions?
January 15th, 2009 at 1:30 am.
R E M E M B E R:
… That was NOT a vile of “Freedom Agenda” Powell held up to the UN.
… There were no ties to al-CIA-duh, etc.
Q U E S T I O N:
What was the threat THEN and what is that threat NOW?
Yep, Cheney sure is gloating about it, NO?
.
January 15th, 2009 at 1:34 amIf only Yglesias had been so vehemently anti-war when it mattered…
January 15th, 2009 at 1:35 amThis must not stand.
January 15th, 2009 at 2:13 amCheney attended Yale University, but he flunked out. Cheney was twice prosecuted for and convicted of drunk driving. Cheney lied to former U.S. House Majority Leader Dick Armey about the grounds for going to war in Iraq. Cheney is a pathological liar. Cheney is incompetent. Cheney would like to think that he is above the law. However, Cheney must pay for crimes against the United States and the world.
Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang
B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
Messiah College, Grantham, PA
Lower Merion High School, Ardmore, PA, 1993
“GEORGE W. BUSH IS THE WORST PRESIDENT IN U.S. HISTORY” BLOG OF ANDREW YU-JEN WANG
ONLINE ANTI-BUSH SCHOLASTIC RESEARCH: LISTING OF MAJOR ISSUES
http://andrewyu-jenwang.blogspot.com/ 2008/ 10/ bush-is-worst-president-in-american.html
January 15th, 2009 at 2:40 amStewarjt, Styve; Jim Lehrer has stated before that he does’nt believe in challenging his guests, even when they tell the most bold-faced lies like Cheney did. This is what really p’s me off about him, because otherwise it’s a quality program.
Boy Tim sure livens things up around here, like a child throwing a rock at
January 15th, 2009 at 3:24 amhornets nest and then flailing away.So much fun to watch.
It is apparent that Cheney puts no value on human life other than himself and the few that in his mind he determines to be worth it. We must in some ways be thankful that Bush and Cheney failed to draw the entire world into armegeddon.
January 15th, 2009 at 5:26 am#245 Fred Says
Damn, that sounds like my home - Sweden! It sure doesn’t come without it’s own set of problems, but I’m pretty damn happy.
January 15th, 2009 at 7:15 amI can’t find the exact numbers in front of me, but Dick “Dick” Cheney’s net worth has tripled since he became the Vice President. Tripled, at least. He’s worth something like 200 million dollars after 8 years as the Vice President, whose annual salary is $221,100. So of course he thinks it’s worth it because in his world, money and power are all that matter.
Cheney is a war criminal and should be treated with contempt for the rest of his life by civlized society until he is imprisoned, then he should be ignored.
January 15th, 2009 at 8:59 am“Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods…”
Assuming this is Tim’s definition he stands by, maybe he’ll explain the conundrum of, on the one hand, dismissing “fire departments” as not a good, but including health care.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:38 amIT IS A QUESTION OF VALUES….Cheney only values his own family (gay or not) and his own money (oil) and his own life. I WOULD PROBABLY THINK IT WAS WORTH IT IF IRAQ WERE A FREE COUNTRY AND THE ONLY PEOPLE TO DIE WERE THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION.
January 15th, 2009 at 9:49 am“Was it worth it?” is a bad question. It assumes that on one side of the equation is a cost and on the other is a benefit. That ain’t the case here. We spent 4,500 lives, tenfold that in seriously injured soldiers, millions of dead or injured Iraqis, and $3 trillion for what? We have a more dangerous world, greater chance of dying due to a terrorist attack, lost the respect of the rest of the world, and disgraced our Constitution.
It’s like paying someone $500 to hit you in the face with a baseball bat. Was it worth it?
January 15th, 2009 at 10:02 amFred Says:
Tim, for all of you self-made men out there:
All that proves for the wingnuts is that the menace of creeping socialism has already infiltrated their community.
.
RickD Says:
If only Yglesias had been so vehemently anti-war when it mattered…
Yes, that would have changed everything!
.
nanlichi Says:
It’s like paying someone $500 to hit you in the face with a baseball bat. Was it worth it?
In Cheney’s case it’s like paying $500 to hit the guy standing next to you with a baseball bat, so you can go through his pockets and recover at least $5000.
January 15th, 2009 at 10:15 amAll I want for the New Year is to see Cheney and the Chimpfck testfying under oath. And separately, so Cheney doesn’t have his hand up little george’s ass to the wrist telling him when to shut the hell up.
January 15th, 2009 at 10:28 amFred, your post #245 is perhaps the best illustration I have EVER encountered of the rights, benefits, “perks,” and protections won for all of us by all those wimpy liberals–who won them for us all–including for the liberal-haters–without recourse to buying elections, lying to the masses, sending troops off to fight an illegal war, ignoring or trashing the Constitution, and eviscerating our ethos in the eyes of the world.
January 15th, 2009 at 10:42 amLehrer should have pointed out to Darth that many of the WMD’s that Saddam had were purchased from the US. This unpleasant fact is the reason why Saddam was hung quickly after his first trial as his next trial was to be on the crimes he committed against his own people and the US sure didn’t want the fact above to come out as we occupied Iraq.
January 15th, 2009 at 10:45 amThe Fool and his Minions supported:
January 15th, 2009 at 12:08 pmMurder and Mahiem in the name of Imperialism and unilateralism. All the Fools men assisted without question. When Scott and Colin refused to go further in the lies and abandoned the story line and told the truth the GOP sigh’d. From within the GOP faithful rattled and the mainstream media reported Brittany divering attention away. Bush kept a Fools straight face while doubletalking and declaring “Mission Accomplished” prematurely and over a million died needlessly. The true number of Iraqi women and children murdered was kept secret while the Gulf War Syndrome US Vets miscarried and birth deformed children silently due to the anthrax vaxcine forced on them by the Fools minions while All other Nations Vets returned unharmed…War Criminal Gone Wild.
I am always confused when people talk about socialism as a form of government. When I went to school it, along with capitalism and communism were economic systems. It was also interesting to see Timmy sort of short changed the Wikipedia definition. The rest of the line is “and an egalitarian society characterized by equal opportunities for all individuals and a fair or egalitarian distribution of wealth.” (He probably couldn’t pronounce egalitarian).
He also hasn’t read the Preamble to the Constitution “promote the general Welfare,” nor the Declaration of Independence “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights”. He also would probably think Ole Abe was a commie for saying “and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.”
Why is it that the idea of a nation caring for all of its citizens is such an evil idea? When did we become so poor in spirit that the possession of money is the deciding factor in who gets what?
January 15th, 2009 at 3:35 pmWhy? Because they were just little people.
January 15th, 2009 at 4:08 pmIt’s a slow day at work so I’m killing time reading this commentary–who the hell is this Vakulic (vacuous?) guy!?! Listen, you ignorant deluded nutcase–anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of American history will be familiar with the America First movement of the 30’s and early 40’s. The people most active in keeping us out of “foreign entanglements” e.g. standing up to Hitler were rightwing shitheads of the Charles Lindbergh or Father Coughlin variety. The German-American Bund made a big noise about the same phony-ass patriotism the you are espousing right now. The sad truth is people like you will be with us forever–lowering the bar for political discourse and attacking your betters in order to foul the public forums with your poison. To presume that people with an interest in making the world better for all of us are the enemy only makes the bankruptcy and wrongheadedness of your viewpoint even more obvious. Turn off the radio and learn some history, cracker!
January 15th, 2009 at 4:10 pmHoodathunk Says:
Why is it that the idea of a nation caring for all of its citizens is such an evil idea? When did we become so poor in spirit that the possession of money is the deciding factor in who gets what?
I am not just name-calling when I state that both economic and social conservatism are evil. They are in fact, expressing precisely a system based on moral and ethical evil. If you were to ask “what is evil, as a way of life,” and develop that into a political philosophy, the end result would be identical to the GOP platform, and completely in line with all of the decisions and arguments presented by conservatives today.
Some of the loonier religious fundamentalists subscribe to a belief that the devil sends minions to Earth to either impersonate humans or possess the evil ones, in order to spread moral evil and to exhort others to perform evil acts, so that their souls will be damned. I don’t hold this as a tenet of any belief system, but if it were true, it would be the only explanation for the Republican party.
Economic conservatism - “greed is good” - is nothing more or less than moral evil disguised as an “economic philosophy.” It consists of no ideas and no accurate economic analyses whatsoever. It is merely an exhortation for human beings to be unconcerned with the difficulties faced by their neighbors, in contradiction to every positive philosophical and religious movement throughout history.
Social conservatism warps the notion of sin to a frankly creepy obsession with sex. It chiefly consists of exhorting people to proclaim their own faith louder and louder while judging each other constantly, both in violation of central Christian principles. It makes Christianity a mockery of itself, and focuses all energy away from anything that Jesus ever even talked about.
As for neocons and foreign policy… it’s nothing more than an exhortation to murder as many people as possible for any or no reason.
Quite simply, they are bad people, and they must be prevented from doing bad things.
January 15th, 2009 at 5:08 pm